3000 poor families coming to LIC

this will no doubt ramp up property vals in LIC...no?

Definitely! Housing projects always have that effect.

quick...buy before this gets priced in!!!

this is still our little secret right?

Actually I honestly think it will help property values. Its not "poor" people, its certainly not projects. Everyone living here will make more than than the projects, and in fact the average household here will make more than the average NYC houshold - especially if you consider the 40% that will be market rate.

But why this will really help is LIC's biggest drawback is the lack of services, IMO. This will give it more critical mass in terms of attracting restaurants, stores etc.

I would rather the city do 100 more of these BTW, and abolish rent control.

Housing development for families of a police officer, firefighter, sanitation worker, teacher or nurse making between $55,000 and $158,000 is a project for poor people ? Geez, I'd hate to hear how you talk about the secretaries at your office. I agree that a lot more middle income housing should be built rather than having rent control.

totally agree with Jason's post. This would be a welcome addition. Aside from this it is amazing to see how far LIC has come in the past 4 months. I mean in terms of the people that have come flowing in .. not just all of the new buildings. it really is a great place to live now ... I can only speak for Hunters point. Just moved there and have not explored much beyond.

long term, great. medium term, great. short term, will kill ericho's investment.

5000 units is probably 10000 people.

Not all the units are affordable; it is 3,000 affordable units out of the total 5,000.

Shoot me now if people making $150K are considered a bad influence and a threat to property values. If that is really the way New Yorkers feel then I hate to say it but the recession is karma. And I'd venture most of you who do feel that way were not born and raised here.

the average income in NYC is about $54k, so they will let people who make up to 3x times that. Oh, how very peasant-like.

the worst housing project in the country is already in LIC.

lizyank, not the income. the scope of the development. and the location. net net this is fabulous, just short term not so great for those who purchased market rate in LIC. i think that is AH's point, albeit presented in a sarcastic manner.

and it depends on the city's overall plans. if they intend to decrease accessible housing elsewhere, replacing it with LIC units, it would raise other issues. but we don't have that info, at least to my knowledge.

Hey 30 yrs...which one...... Astoria Housing, Ravenswood or Queensbridge Housing projects?

Pretty sure it's Queensbridge.

Amazing how people who know nothing about LIC comment on here like experts. I'm glad alan keeps posting things like this so everyone can see how much of a jackass he is. This will have top-flight buildings, parks, retail, a high school, and 40% of the apartments set aside for people making incomes from the average NYC income to over 3 times the average. And he posts like this is some bad news and ar gives opinions even though she is clueless.

Those housing projects mentioned above are nowhere near Hunters Point.

How many miles from nowhere?

If 3/4 of a mile is "nowhere near", I guess. Sounds more like a 15 minute walk to me

plenty of harlem projects are closer walking distance to prime upper east side than these are to hunters point ... alphabet city to Soho ... etc. etc.

nothing really new here. It's NY city.

These projects are a brisk 20 minute walk from hunters point.

A brisk 20 minute walk and on the other side of the Queensboro Bridge.

Really? name all the Harlem projects 3/4 of a mile from PRIME Upper East Side: you guys are so funny: when a broker calls the areas you are calling prime "prime", they are lying scum; when you need it to be true, all of a sudden they are prime. Name all the BAD project in Alphabet city within 3/4 of a mile of real Soho. And name any of the one's you've chosen about which come close to Queensbridge in terms of "badness".

PS The gagng members won't be walking - it's more like a 3 minute drive (by).

I'm delighted that all new affordable housing is not being dumped into one neighborhood of one borough.

This is fucking hilarious in light of LICC, and ericho.

All NYC projects:
http://gis.nyc.gov/nycha/im/AddressMap.do

prime upper east (60 - low 80's from park to 5th) ... let's be fair and include down to 3rd ave. 90's are all projects. Real projects ... not middle income. The map speaks for itself.

second map ... number of homicides by area of NYC:
http://projects.nytimes.com/crime/homicides/map

Hunters point appears to have one the lowest homicide rates in the entire city (last year and from 2003 to date).

Lastly, don't forget that the precinct for this entire area of queens is smack in the middle of LIC and right when you get off of the subway.

And Lowery/rhino, people can spin it however they like but there are two sides to this story. All of queens west (currently the nicest/most developed part of Hunters point) was part of a similar re-development program to accommodate for middle income. This is all private development and with it they are building schools, parks, athletic facilities. Here is another thread, about the same thing, with a very different headline that was started before this one:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/12459-lic-getting-more-great-new-waterfront-parks

Isn't the issue here, with regards to LIC property values, the number of potential buyers who are eliminated by this plan? LIC has been marketed as an affordable alternative for those "priced out of Manhattan." Wouldn't many of those people be low 6-figure earners? The article doesn't specify the distribution across incomes, but with a range of $55k-158k, there could be 1500 people who are willing to consider living in LIC getting very cheap, protected rentals in brand new buildings. Why would they buy?

"Hunters point appears to have one the lowest homicide rates in the entire city (last year and from 2003 to date)."

You should see how low the murder numbers are in Antarctica. The number of murders are low in Hunters Point BECAUSE NO ONE LIVES THERE.

And if you think all "real projects' are equal in how dangerous they are, you know zero about what these projects are actually like.

If anyone really knew what they were talking about, the counter point they would be making is the Robert Fulton Houses.

yes tenemental, there has always been a huge over supply of middle income housing in NY. I am sure that there will be no waiting list for qualified applicants and that it will put a huge dent in the 8,000,000 people in NY ... most of whom are seeking affordable and/or middle income housing. you're right, 1,500 is lot when you put it in context.

to the point about no one living in Hunters Point. I don't know that I need to respond to that. Anyone who has been here recently doesn't need to even argue that. There enough strollers zipping around that you feel like you are on the upper west side and the parks are always full now... I don't really need to go on about it because I am perfectly happy with the current population in Hunters point.

It's funny that some people feel the need to go on and on about LIC ... if you don't like it, that's fine ... plenty of other people do. And if you haven't been here recently and you are just rambling on ... then there is no point in wasting your breath either. It is amazing how many people take so much time to talk about LIC when they supposedly have no interest in it.

ohhh well...

"Really? name all the Harlem projects 3/4 of a mile from PRIME Upper East Side:"

Well, there are actually a bunch (though it's technically Spanish Harlem) - Carver and Lexington Houses start at 98th/99th. That's definitely close to prime UES. I think the Alphabet City projects are a tad further from prime Soho, but those downtown areas can change so much from block to block that they do feel a world away. Still, the point it valid - and while I'm not the biggest fan, I don't get all the dumping on LIC (or any neighborhood) either.

Pretty defensive reply, RENY2011. If more of the 8MM people living in NYC wanted to live in LIC, sales there would be going a whole lot better. Not to mention the fact that millions of New Yorkers don't earn within the $55k-158k range. The correct context, which you chose to ignore, is the number of people "who are willing to consider living in LIC" and fit within the the top half of that range. Isn't the low 6-figure demographic a big target for LIC developers? Of those people, how many would try for the new subsidized housing instead?

i would be more interested in seeing how the city addresses the impact to the 7 line... its already pretty bad even when the trains are running (they should hire japanese style stuffers during rush hour!), i cant imagine another 10,000 people stuffing into a 2 entrance, 1 line subway stop... this is a HUGE roadblock imo. theyll probably have to expand the station coincident with the residential project. any thoughts on this?

I agree that train capacity might become a problem, but I do not think it is especially bad at the moment and have never had any trouble getting on the train in the morning (at around 8:30am) - when do you take it?

i usually take it at 8.. there were times when literally half the people on the platform had to wait to take the next train, which admittedly came not long after after. i was in the view sales office this week and was surprised to see that the rockrose project will be expanding several blocks north.. my point was with the city project, it'll be 10 blocks of very dense residential area served by a small subway stop (that seems to shut down for months at a time) and no buses. hopefully they can expand the water taxi and turn it into a legit commuter ferry.

Or add a pedestrian walk (and bike) bridge... *dreaming*

This whole idea that the 7 train is crowded very morning is a myth. I would say that maybe three times this year I had to let a train go for being crowded, and each time was because of a delay, not because of normal rush hour crowds. The train is very long and comes every couple minutes.
Also, the 7 does not shut down for months at a time. It is hardly ever down. Sometimes between the holidays and baseball season they will shut it on weekends, but they will have shuttles take you the half mile to the E and V train during those times.

LICComment - I originally said it as a hyperbole, but now I seem to recall that it was down at least 2 months on the weekends this year, and about the same amount of time last year. Regardless, you missed my point which was not on the current capacity, but that the city will HAVE to address the infrastructure issue soon if they intend to move on this project, which seems likely. Unfortunately, that could mean further disruption.

I too am looking forward to that pie-in-the-sky gantry park to tudor city bike path!

> This will have top-flight buildings

Because the city builds top flight buildings?

can someone tell me where the city plans to get the money to build these apts.?

The city is not funding the construction. The city is funding the infrastructure and the parks. The buildings will be built and managed by private developers and private management companies. A REBNY consortium had expressed interest initially (maybe spearheaded by Tishman, but I'm not sure), but a developer hasn't been selected.

"Housing development for families of a police officer, firefighter, sanitation worker, teacher or nurse making between $55,000 and $158,000 is a project for poor people "

Keep in mind that $55k for a FAMILY could mean two people making $28k....

These are not "city projects" ... just like queens west, the city owns the land but will more than likely give very very favorable terms to big developers. The rockrose buildings and avalon are built under that program. Hunters point south is merely an extension of the same development program. The queens west development corporation was set up under the empire state development corporation to handle the development of queens west: http://www.queenswest.org/home.html

There are actually a number of below market rate apartments in the rockrose buildings as well.

So, essentially the city will give land away to big rental companies and in return they will build these buildings along with schools and parks just as they did on the other side. They are actually also breaking ground on the 4th rockrose building at the end of this month (another rental).

The issue of below market rate as it relates to the 8,000,000 new yorkers: people earning between $58,000 and $158,000 (not people, but households) is a lot of people. It doesn't mean market rate apartments for these people, it means that it will be well below the price that is available at market rate to these people. This would be nowhere near enough to crimp demand for existing apartments in the city. There will still be a never ending waiting list to get one (just like there is at the current queenswest buildings), so that was my point about the millions of new yorkers. This will not even begin to meet demand for "middle income" housing.

The 7 is not as bad as people say ... I have never "had" to wait for another train but it is sometimes uncomfortably full ... no worse than the 4, 5, 6. I do agree, however, that they do need to address the infrastructure for the coming years.adding a 3rd or maybe even 4th track would make a huge difference.

nyc10022, do you even know what low/affordable limits are in this city??
Here is the breakdown by family size (quite different), taken directly from NYCHA:
1 Person $26,900
2 Persons 30,700
3 Persons 34,550
4 Persons 38,400
5 Persons $41,450
6 Persons 44,550
7 Persons 47,600
8 Persons 50,700
9 Persons $53,750
10 Persons 56,850
11 Persons 59,900
12 Persons 63,300

> no worse than the 4, 5, 6.

Doesn't say very much. Lex line is the most crowded in city, and they're building a second line specifically to address that. And the UES isn't adding that many people.

Apply that to a place where there are thousands and thousands of new residents coming... ouch.

I agree... these don't sound like "real" projects to me.

But, this does sound a lot like...well, Roosevelt Island.

And I don't mean that in a positive way.