Renters Are LOSERS, Underwater Homeowners are WINNERS Under Nww Govt. Plan!

Alpo, you still can't afford Manhattan, and you are the #1 voted loser on this board...

so why are you trying to call folks names?

> looks like sitting on the sidelines in your crummy rental might not have been such a good idea after
> , huh?

yes, I should have put money down on a place in Jersey and lost 100% of it. Then I, too, could have been a "winner" like our putz alpo!

Alpie, renters MUST be the winners b/c the government is implicitly saying that it's better to rent than to own.

the govt. is not saying that it is better to rent than own. No wonder peopel think your delusional. Why else is the govt. going to make peoples' mortgage payments? And why are they not going to pay peoples' rents?

oh, and nyc10022, your not worth my tiem anymore. You keep posting the same garbage over and over again. If you want to think I live in NJ, go ahead. I don't care. I'm putting you on ignore.

Yes, on a day like today I am very happy I put my $$$ into the stock market rather than illiquid depreciating NYC real estate. Thanks for the reminder!

oh, so now all of a sudden the stock market is better than RE because it has a good day. What do you think is gong to happen to the DOW when all of the retail stores post their earnings, or should I say lack of earnings? All I can say is LOOK OUT BELOW!

Dumbass, the S&P 500 bottomed at 666 in March and is now up 40% since then - NYC RE is still on the way down.

...too bad you were too stupid to get in at or around the lows. That's why you have the reputation on this msg bd that you do - b/c you are dumb.

If I was dumb, I would have gotten in when the DOW was at 14,000. And the stock market is going to see steep drops when disappointing 2Q earning reports come in. Mark my words.

OK, dummy, I will "mark your words" - no doubt you will be proven wrong yet again (no surprise there).

BTW, idiot, the 3% RISE today was b/c of INTEL'S POSITIVE Q2 EARNINGS REPORT - moron.

Read and learn, fool.

Strong results at Intel pull stocks sharply higher
Stocks surge as earnings and forecast at Intel boost hopes for economic rebound; Dow jumps 257
By Tim Paradis and Stephen Bernard, AP Business Writers
On Wednesday July 15, 2009, 6:22 pm EDT

NEW YORK (AP) -- The nation's big companies are giving investors a reason to restart Wall Street's spring rally.

Stocks surged Wednesday for the second time in three days, propelling all the major indexes up about 3 percent and the Dow Jones industrials up 257 points for their biggest one-day gain in nearly four months. An upbeat forecast from Intel Corp. and the Federal Reserve's more positive take on the economy built on momentum that began Monday when an analyst issued an optimistic forecast for Goldman Sachs Group Inc.

The news had investors believing again that the economy may not be as weak as many have feared. Wall Street had drifted lower over the past month, putting its big spring rally on hold as hopes for a quick recovery faded.

The latest encouragement came from Intel, the leading computer chip maker whose much better results suggested that computer sales -- and perhaps capital investment in general -- is picking up faster than had been expected. Intel's news followed not just the upgrade of Goldman but the bank's strong profit report on Tuesday.

Meanwhile, the day's economic data were more reassuring than some of the numbers the market had seen recently. The Federal Reserve said industrial companies cut production far less in June than they had in previous months, with output at the nation's factories, mines and utilities slipping just 0.4 percent last month after sliding 1.2 percent in May.

Traders found more good news when the Fed released minutes from its June meeting, saying it now expects the economy to contract at a slower pace than previously thought.

"What we're seeing is some confirmation that stabilization is in fact upon us," said Matthew Kaufler, portfolio manager at Federated Clover Investment Advisors in Rochester, N.Y. "At least right now investors are willing to say it's not going to be as bad as feared."

Still, it's very early in the reporting period for second-quarter earnings. With so many companies still to release their results and outlooks, the market could still retreat if investors don't like what they're hearing.

The Dow jumped 256.72, or 3.1 percent, to 8,616.21, its biggest gain since March 23. The Dow is up 5.8 percent in three days, its best run since a three-day period ended April 2. The Dow is now down only 163 points from where it closed on June 12, when stocks began to slide after their surge in March and April.

The Standard & Poor's 500 index rose 26.84, or 3 percent, to 932.68, while the technology-laden Nasdaq composite index gained 63.17, or 3.5 percent, to 1,862.90, responding to Intel's news. The Nasdaq has now advanced for six straight days, giving it a gain of 6.7 percent over that stretch.

Investors are showing again this week that economic data are important but corporate earnings and forecasts can be even more effective in galvanizing buyers.

Wednesday's gain in the Dow was the best percentage climb since April 9, when the blue chips jumped 3.1 percent as banker Wells Fargo & Co.'s early profit report topped expectations. For the S&P 500 index, Wednesday's jump was the biggest since a 3 percent rally on May 18 when a better-than-expected profit report from Lowe's Cos., the home-improvement chain, helped boost sentiment.

Robert B. MacIntosh, chief economist at Eaton Vance Management in Boston, remains cautious. He said investors had been bracing for weak earnings so it doesn't take much to beat expectations and that the excitement could mask trouble spots in the economy like unemployment.

"Real growth is when you start to create some jobs," he said. "People are going to be disappointed in the weakness and the length of the recovery."

Financial stocks jumped after American Express Co. and Capital One Financial Corp. said delinquency rates improved in June. That hinted that consumers weren't struggling as much as they had been.

Amex jumped $2.76, or 11.3 percent, to $27.22, while Capital One surged $2.73, or 11.8 percent, to $25.84.

The gains in stocks robbed Treasurys of some of their safe-haven appeal as investors became more willing to take on risk. The 10-year Treasury note, a widely used benchmark for mortgages and other loans, tumbled more than a point, pushing its yield up to 3.62 percent from 3.47 percent late Tuesday.

Investors will be watching other big banks -- JPMorgan Chase & Co., Bank of America Corp. and Citigroup Inc. -- reporting second-quarter results this week to see whether the industry is recovering.

Intel rose $1.22, or 7.3 percent, to $18.05.

The dollar fell, and prices for gold and other commodities rose. Light, sweet crude rose $2.02 to settle at $61.54 per barrel on the New York Mercantile Exchange.

Nine stocks rose for every one that fell on the New York Stock Exchange, where volume came to 5.5 billion shares, compared with 4.2 billion Tuesday.

The Russell 2000 index of smaller companies rose 18.22, or 3.7 percent, to 514.74.

Stocks also surged overseas following Intel's report. Britain's FTSE 100 jumped 2.6 percent, Germany's DAX index rose 3.1 percent, and France's CAC-40 gained 2.9 percent. Hong Kong's Hang Seng index gained 2.1 percent.

If CIT goes, so does the rally

"the 3% RISE today was b/c of INTEL'S POSITIVE Q2 EARNINGS REPORT"

Then I guess we can look forward to 3% declines when Saks, Bloomingdales, Home Depot, Lowes, etc. put ut their earning reports. Ecept for Wal Mart, reatail earnings are going to look awful.

"The news had investors believing again that the economy may not be as weak as many have feared."

Are investors still going to beleive that when unemployment goes over 10%? The economy IS as weak as people have feared. In fact, IT IS WORSE! Even Joe Biden admitted they "misread" the economy.

"the govt. is not saying that it is better to rent than own."

Of course they are. They are saying that it's cheaper to rent than it is to own the same place. If that's not better, what is?

"If CIT goes, so does the rally"

I doubt it, but maybe so. Market could interpret this as a POSITIVE, as the Obama Admin is letting the creative destruction of capitalism work things out, instead of bailing out every financial institution that gets in trouble. CIT is only 1/10th size of Lehman, other banks will take up their slack. In any event, it's a CIT BK is good for me as a long-term holder of WFC, since WFC will gain market share. Yes!

Pres - you can argue with market forces as much as you want, but it won't stop the stock mkt from moving up, nor will it stop the NYC RE mkt from moving down. Sorry, dude.

CIT filing could be viewed as a positive for the dollar at least since we wont add another 50 yards to our bill.

They let CIT fail :

http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Refusing-bailout-for-CIT-US-apf-4284821152.html?x=0&sec=topStories&pos=1&asset=&ccode=

Do people in housing projects and McMansions make up the majority of homeowners in this country? You mean to tell me that amongst the millions of people that are losing their homes, none of them made good buying decisions, had a good job, paid their bills on time and are now looking at losing everything they have?

"Pres - you can argue with market forces as much as you want, but it won't stop the stock mkt from moving up, nor will it stop the NYC RE mkt from moving down."

So 10% + unemployment is going to have no impact on the stock market? Wake up. This is a bear rally. I don't have to make the stock market fall, the fundamentals will do just that.

BSExposer, the argument about stock investing instead of buying an apartment has been disproven
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3410-real-estate-is-a-bad-investment
- investing in February 2008 when this was created would have been a disaster

I'm not saying buying real estate is a good idea, but telling someone to put their money into stocks instead, NOT a good idea

So, let me see if I get this straight: If you are a loser like Alpo, but the gov't bails you out...aren't you still a loser, just one that got a bailout?? Since when does a loser who gets a gratuitous lucky break a winner? He still got it wrong.

"BSExposer, the argument about stock investing instead of buying an apartment has been disproven
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3410-real-estate-is-a-bad-investment
- investing in February 2008 when this was created would have been a disaster"

As is doing anything stevejhx recommends.

losers who get bailed out are no longer losers. See: Wall St, Fannie, Freddie, AIG, etc.

one reason you can't put all of your money into stocks instead of RE is because you can't live in a stock. I know that sounds like a dumb thing to say, but at least the homweowner whose investment went down has something to show for it. The shareholder whose stock went down has nothing to show except for a piece of paper.

alpie, what about foreclosures? ignoring them? how about short sales? plenty of potential to have nothing to show for one's investment. and if renting would have been cheaper during the ownership period, that compounds the loss.

I don;t get it. The argument FOR real estate is that the markets are going to go down?!?! How will that help real estate? Anyone who bought and is underwater might get a handout for their house, but they won't be able to sell it and they won't be able to move to find a job somewhere else. And now that is supposed to be a good thing?

"So 10% + unemployment is going to have no impact on the stock market? Wake up."

Everybody already knows UE is going over 10%, it's priced in - the stock market looks past that to the inevitable recovery. You really have no clue about how markets work, apparently.

"one reason you can't put all of your money into stocks instead of RE is because you can't live in a stock."

Um, no S sherlock - you have to set aside $$$ for housing - but if it's cheaper to rent than to buy, you should rent. What do you not understand about that???

"BSExposer, the argument about stock investing instead of buying an apartment has been disproven
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/3410-real-estate-is-a-bad-investment
- investing in February 2008 when this was created would have been a disaster

I'm not saying buying real estate is a good idea, but telling someone to put their money into stocks instead, NOT a good idea"

Sorry, but you have absolutely NO CLUE what you are talking about. Buffett bought a house as his primary residence for $35,000 in the early 1950s and he hasn't bought another one since; yet he's made over $30 Billion by investing in stocks and bonds during the past 50+ years. OBVIOUSLY you shouldn't buy stocks if they are OVERPRICED; the point is that they are NO LONGER OVERPRICED, thus now is the time to buy. Get it???????????

"but at least the homweowner whose investment went down has something to show for it."

This is the funniest moronic thing I've seen in a while.

Nice job, alpo!