The Lenox

No disrespect Pastor, I don't anything about your situation, but nowadays even the Church has it's own agenda....why are there so many churches in Harlem?

"No disrespect Pastor"

Honestly "anonymous" your disrespect isn't meant toward the "Pastor". It is aimed squarely at churches and the community in general. Why are there so many churches in Harlem you ask? Because when white people refused to come this way; as Frank Sinatra so eloquently put it ("Wont go to harlem, in ermine and pearls"), when there was no one but minorities, these were our social clubs. These were the places we could go to feel safe. You see Harlem is just now for you and others, a place to be, to build and refresh. To revitalize....funny you didn't think that then.

I really wouldn't disrespect any person of the cloth.....so I really don't mean any disrespect. It really was an honest question regarding what seems to be a vast number of churches in Harlem...by the way I am a minority originally from the Bronx. My thing is that in the past everyones perception of Harlem was negative and synonymous with high levels of crime despite all the churches in the area. Now I come from the Bronx when it was hell on earth and there definitely weren't that many churches in the area....it really seems unusual...I've never seen so many in any area that I have been to. I guess I'm just curious as to that dynamic...a lot of religious institutions but still there was a lot of crime and a negative vibe back then....although this is obviously not the case now. I will say that I actually love Harlem and like to see everyone going to church with their fancy hats on Sunday.

Well, I would never have any problem disrespecting any person of the cloth, if his behavior called for it (i.e. Jerry Falwell, Cardinal O'Connor, etc.). They're just people, no more and no less. But I don't think your question will be perceived as disrespectful, even if there's no specific "correct" answer.

But to try to answer your question, a big reason there are so many churches in Harlem, and that most of them do a brisk business, is that it's a cultural transplantation from the upper Southern small towns that many Harlem residents and their parents/grandparents/greatgrandparents came from -- it's the main social milieu in traditional small-town life, the place to show off fancy duds and cars, and for more substantive community interaction/action. [And the hanging-out on streets on summer evenings is Southern porch-sitting relocated to NY.]

I don't know any of the details, but it would be shame if Mt Calvary church got burned in that deal.

i love all of the beautiful churches in harlem (and the fancy hats on sunday!)

I just love being in harlem and having friendly neighbors and surrounded by beautiful architecture, no one gives it a chance up here but it will change and still keep its past. Sorry for anyone who has no vision of how this can be...

There ARE way too many churches per person in Harlem, and no where near enough businesses, particualry black-owned businesses. There, I said it. I am black and live in harlem. There are far too many empty lots, too.

Anyway, my question is: does anyone actually live in this buidling and if so do they like it?

Agreed, Jason. No disrespect to the men and women of cloth, but the number of churches compared to other much needed services in Harlem is way out of proportion.

I am a son of the black church (my grandfather, brother and uncle are all preachers), although I left it for a funky post-doctrinaire congregation in the East Village. I don't think anyone who knows anything about the history of the African-American northern migration would contest the fact that the black church provided crucial social, economic and psychic security for the vulnerable, largely rural denizens of the South who came by the thousands to urban New York. The would have had a much more difficult time than they did had the institution of the black church not existed. The question is whether the black church is still serving that role. I think not. I find it stunning, and deeply disappointing, that the contemporary Black church in Harlem has largely betrayed the social gospel or tradition of black liberation theology that made it a center of social services, economic support, education, wealth building, etc. A few of the churches have credit unions, day centers/pre- and after-school programs, adult education, etc. and are open every day as fully integrated and active participants in the full life of the Harlem community. For the most part, though, they are open only on Sundays and Wednesdays (for prayer meeting and Bible study), and for Thursday night choir rehearsals. The current emphasis, in short, is on personal, egoistic, moralizing piety, or the gospel of black consumer capitalism ("God wants you to have the Lexus or Dolce Gabbana, and you will as long as you keep paying the car notes on the pastor's Lincoln Continental." As a social and economic force, the black church has become largely reactionary (witness its hysteria over questions of women's and gay/lesbian rights) or simply irrelevant. More to the point of this board-- to my knowledge only Canaan and Abyssinian Baptist churches have been deeply involved in trying to leverage their resources to provide affordable, black-owned housing for the members of the Harlem community. Given the wealth these Black churches represent, I find that unconscionable.

did the Pioneer supermarket open in this building? heard some owners were less than happy about this store opening as it's "less than luxurious".

Although the discourse on church prevelance in the area is fascinating (and I love the view from The Fredrick's windows of the stain glass windows of the church next door), any word on this building? Kid-friendly, space, amenities, construction? Would be happy for the scoop from any angle. Thanks, PCR

I have a friend who rents a penthouse there. Its nice, though the owner totally re-did the interior. The key is that its apparently MOSTLY owner-owned by renter-occupied.

considering a purchase here - is this mostly rented out or do owners actually live here. Also what is the neighborhood like - any parks nearby?

Great building. We looked here. If we had no kids it would have been an option. Nice foyer, lots of light, cool roof deck and def. on the high end in terms of construction. We didn't like the side-by-side bedrooms (in the unit we were considering) and also the newer construction isn't our thing - but that's simply a personal preference for pre-war. Though this building def. merges pre-war/new construction very well - doesn't feel cheap. If it's in your budget and you like newer construction a nice option, IMO.

Really?? I thought it DID feel cheap. We saw units with uneven floors, baseboard problems and so on. The finishes were okay, but not great. The units didn't often have a lot of light. We prefer new construction, but the options on FDB were done much better.

This is the first place we saw in Harlem, and we liked it, but we didn't love it. Many of the places below 125th street we did love.

we noticed the uneven floors too, but loved the space - not so much the location, bc we do have kids. we are looking for something in the sugar hill, FDB or hamilton Heights area with 3BR and more than 1400 sq ft. We live in a very old building right now and don't mind pre-war but would prefer something renovated. Did not like that the Lenox was not close to any parks...

Seriously? Compared to a lot of the new construction we thought two buildings stuck out as better than most: The Lenox and The Livmor. Yes, we did see flaws but nothing on the scale of most of the new construction. Overall, the building was more solid feeling. We looked in places where you seriously wondered if the building might just cave in one day. But back to The Lexox, obviously we didn't love it or we would have purchased here. But, if you're looking uptown (minus kids) the overall package might make it worth it. Some people love the doorman, roofdeck type arrangement.

Anyway, mrs1007 sounds like you're in the market for the same thing we were. Space, kid friendly, reasonably priced. We found that on 157th st, but I have to say we had to do a full reno. We found the space but the apartment was a do-over. That sucked with two small kids but is worth it now. All I can say is: fuerte. Real estate hunting in Manhattan is truly something else.

The Livmor is MUCH nicer than the Lenox. So is 2280 FDB, 88 Morningside, and The Apex. You're right that there are plenty of places that aren't as nice though.

Mrs1007, if you're looking for something similar to the Lenox but with a nearby park, try Ellington on the Park, 130 Bradhurst Ave.

we were really interested in ellington, but all of the big apartments were gone - we wanted the 1400 sq ft ones. We also liked PS 90 very much but their last 3BR just went into contract. boo!

A recent sale went for 450 psf. Should an interested buyer approach the remaining units with this in mind or does it depend on the unit itself (floor, sq. footage, view (or not))?

Owners are suing the developer: http://therealdeal.com/blog/2014/01/03/harlem-condo-board-takes-developer-to-task-over-alleged-construction-gaffes/