Onyx Chelsea

you mean this article on curbed?

do any borkers know any info or has anyone purchased in this building yet? if so have you looked at it recently. it seriously looks like somthing is wrong outside.

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4) Chelsea: [Ed. note—this is a response to this] "I am a builder in NYC.

I was offered the Onyx project in Miami five months ago: land, design, permit, sale office. The works. They wanted out and the price was cheap, I smelled blood in the water and began keeping an eye on the Onyx here in Chelsea.

To a practiced eye the project at 28th and 8th is completely out of money, the exterior stone, or curtain wall should have been put in place before the drywall work inside was done. Its obvious to me that what they are doing now is going for a TCO (temporary certificate of occupancy) so they can close on units and get enough cash to complete it, or run.

The TCO is a life safety code and there is nothing "unsafe" about missing exterior curtain wall when there is a CMU (concrete masonry unit) back up. Of course it is butt ugly and I feel sorry for the people who bought the units sight unseen.

Also when I went through the Condo plan, which I did out of curiosity, I concluded that the "tax schedule" was a complete lie. Some of the apartments had taxes of $120. per month, rather than the $800. of a normally sized condo in this area. Remember that the tax schedule is not what you will pay, rather the SELLERS approximation of what you will pay, in my opinion in this case it was a lie. I believe that they claimed to buy 421A certificates to get lower taxes, and undoubtedly they never did that as well."

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It gets wierder. After I posted the above, a sales agent at Onyx didn't answer any questions about construction or financing, but instead sent me the following:

What's Streeteasy? I have no idea who they are but this is what we have left.

Joseph C. Bongiovanni
Core Group Marketing
417 Fifth Ave
New York, NY 10016
Phone: 646.734.4294
Joseph@coregroupnyc.com

-----Original Message-----
From: Joseph Bongiovanni
To: Joseph Bongiovanni
Sent: Fri Sep 14 18:20:47 2007
Subject: Floorplans and Pricing for Onyx Chelsea

Hi and thanks for your inquiry.

Onyx Chelsea offers one of the best values in the city.

Apt 9C is a very unique, truly one-of a kind in all Manhattan...
9C is a 1 BR/1.5 BATH - $1.365M, 3 exposures (s,w,e) 2 terraces.

4E is a 2 BR/2.5 BATH - $1.4M, 2 exposures (n,s).
6E is a 2 BR/2.5 BATH - $1.475M, 2 exposures (n,s).

If you do not find what you need here let me know.

Joseph C. Bongiovanni
"Excellence in Service"

After my original postings, I got the above email as I said. Then I got this one from the Onyx agent:

Streeteasy is an unreliable source of information.

Joseph C. Bongiovanni
Core Group Marketing
417 Fifth Ave
New York, NY 10016
Phone: 646.734.4294
Joseph@coregroupnyc.com

Well that email from core group definitely doesn't refute anything directly. . .plus it appears the source is really the curbed posting - but I doubt he thinks that is "reliable" as well.

If you are asking people to spend $1M+ don't you think the sales staff would sound a little more sophisticated than this? Or respond in some manner to the speculation flying around the net about their project and problems with the building's financing/construction schedule? Why wouldn't they say something like, "Everything is on course for this terrific project and we expect occupancy to begin in ______. The date for first round of closings is set for __________. Certain web sites indicate more units available than are in fact still available because listings errantly do not reflect units that are "in contract" but have not yet closed. We are working to correct that error." Why is a statement like that so hard to make unless they can't make it because it isn't true? The way their sales office on 23rd street was always closed, the way it looking when they moved out of it, the way the building looks now, and the quality and content of the emails I got make me feel like this is something operating out of a former Soviet bloc nation that you end up seeing a report on on Dateline NBC.

some days the www truly is quite a frightening place. what relationship does the onyx in miami have with chelsea onyx? none. did anyone take a half second to check out the sponsorship of the development, bronfman may have pissed away a few billion chasing starlets in hollywood, but the family still controls what, $15b?

"Notdeadyet," what are you talking about? "www truly" ? "Miami" ? "Bronfman" ? Huh?

notdeadyet i think you might have misread the article. i believe his description of the conversation taking place in miami about a building in chelsea called they onyx. i could be wrong but that is my interpretation.

kylewest, i looked at other buildings marketed by coremarketing group and they we all updated on street easy on the 14th. examples are the onyx, 246 west 17 and emory. there are others. i think this is something that streeteasy would have to work out with coremarketing group.

it seems a bit ingorant not to keep this information up to date on behalf of CMG, but hey if they feel these buildings can sell themselves then good for them.

the onyx building itself, if i were an buyer in this building i would be concerned. when i first looked at this building there is a large divergence between pictures and reality. but i think because the developer is being cheap. the building on the outside looks terrible and i cannot imagine what they would do to the inside.

Spoke to the builder directly just now and said they are working on the facade as we speak. In no way were they trying to dupe any buyers.

KG1000: Do you you spoke to the general contractor? The sponsor? Who is "the builder?" What was the context of the conversation? What do you mean "in no way were they trying to dupe any buyers?" In what context did that come up? Did the "builder" elaborate? What has caused the delays in construction? What is the projected completion date? Who are you? Did you write me those weird emails that I posted above? Why does everything associated with this building come across with all the credibility of those emails I get from deposed Nigerian dictator's widows who want to deposit $30 trillion dollars in my account as soon as I give them my SS# and bank account #?

KYLEWEST: I spoke with the general contractor and the developer today. I bought an apartment in the building in January and so when i read this blog, I became worried. The contractor specifically told me that they are putting the facade up. I went by at 5pm today and noticed that they had started. I never asked what were the delays in the construction but it was a 3 month delay so i am not upset. You have to expect some delays with new construction. I am moving into my unit in the middle of october. Is there a reason why you are so upset? You seem so touchy on the subject as though you have money invested. You should not be so stressed out. Anyways, because this blog bothered me, I went to go check my specific unit out and other than small touch ups, it is completely done and done extremely well. I can't wait to move in!

Another question: Are you working for an opposing company? Do you have a problem with Core Marketing Group? I find it odd that you are this passionately against the ONYX. Prospective buyer? This is confusing to me. Maybe you are just bored and have nothing better to do.

Interested in the place - will check it out

I've been looking at The Emory (also represented by Core) and when I contacted the sales office, I was told that there was only 1 unit left. On Streeteasy, there are 10 units that are listed as available. Either there is a lack of communication between Core and Streeteasy as a general matter, or something else is going on.

I have nothing against porn stars..... but.... the old office on 23rd and 8th had a pretty cocky former Swedish porn star trying to peddle these ridiculously overpriced apartments.... Did anyone notice what the actual block looks like or what the view accross 8th avenue is... Seems like a very greedy developer trying to make something "sexy".... try again - (BTW : a central remote "upgrade" that opens blinds is not worth an extra $10,000)

These recent negative postings are completely unfounded. Please do some fact checking before posting comments that are completely fabricated and untrue. By the way the Swedish individual you are referring to also bought a place in the building so are you telling me he swindled himself. Matthew Bronfman, heir to the Seagram's empire, is part owner of the development company. He has reputational risk if the building is not completed as promised. I've seen actual pictures of finished units in the building and they look exactly like the artist renderings. Furthermore, Vera Wang is designing a sculpture for the lobby of the condo. Do you think she would attach her name to a project that was in distress. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/30/realestate/30Deal2.html?ref=todayspaper
Furthermore, I bought a unit in the building know for a fact only 3 units are left. Also, rumors about the facade not being finished are completely unfounded. I have seen all the materials required to complete facade. In fact if you walk down 28th street they have started the frame work for completion of the outside of the building.

Sorry sberg25 - I also went by the sales office (Mr. Swedish was rude! - but that's besides the point) If you compare your building to recent new construction - you seem to have paid a huge premium for a "Chelsea North" address. The stretch of 8th Avenue (up to 34th Street) is downright scary at night. If you do a real comparison, you should have paid $85 to $115 less per SqFt. (Look at the new buildings on 6th Ave) I'm sure all the apartments will be beautiful, but most brand new apartments are. The delay is not acceptable. You should request compensation no less than fair market rent for your present apartment.

I have to agree Mr. Swedish is obnoxious but it still did not deter people from buying into the property. I paid under $1200/sf so I think I paid a fair price for the unit. I was reluctant about the area also. However, building adjacent to the Onyx on 28th st is going to be converted to a condo, FIT is building a new wing on 28th street and the developer has purchase the 2 buildings behind the Onyx on 27th street. I understand there are better areas but it will improve. There is a limited amount of space in the city this neighborhood will be gentrified. I'm committed and not worried about my investment.

GayReporter, just curious what price per square foot were you quoted?

Is the train is back on the track? This link re: the Onyx from the real estate blog Curbed.com:

http://curbed.com/archives/2007/10/04/alls_cool_the_onyx_is_back_on_track.php#reader_comments

And the blogging about Onyx continues...
http://curbed.com/archives/2007/10/11/curbedwire_onyx_buyer_likes_what_he_sees_elliman_hearts_the_slope_trouble_at_the_old_mill.php

We just saw our unit ahead of our closing. These negative blogs are completely unfounded. Finishes in the apartment are very high end. I've seen everything from the Charleston, 100 W 18th, Stratus, Sky House, Chelsea House and these are some of the best so far. Thankfully the apartments are even more spectacular finished. I was concerned about my unit because of all these negative blogs. Funny how people claim they know about the 421A abatement, stalled construction, poor finishes when they haven't even purchased a unit in the building. Furthermore, street easy does not always update all its listings for sold units in a timely fashion. Also, I find it amusing when people find negative aspects of the building and neighborhood yet they chose to go to the showroom and see the area. If it was such an atrocity why even speak to a salesperson or even attempt to see the place. So I bought the place sight unseen but now that I have seen the finished product it has allayed all my fears and concerns.

kg1000 and sberg25: I am also a buyer at the Onyx. While it's amusing to read people trash the building, Fredrik, and its developers, is as usual just New York noise.

I would like to start an Onyx email group, only for buyers in the building. Are you interested?

jmass and kg1000 I think starting a thread for Onyx buyers is a great idea. I'm in.

jmass, kg1000 and sberg25; We are also buyers in the building and would like to participate in the email group. Truthfully, we are looking for information on the building, its progress and who are neighbors are.

Why in the world would a buyer financially committed to the building need to ask other buyers for info on the building's progress (see last post)? Isn't that readily available from the development office?

I must say, many of you got into pre-construction rather early. If it worked, very good. If it didn't, I'm sorry. Now I really don't think there is any rush unless you want specific areas (and if you can afford 40 Bond something will come along eventually if you don't get in).

I saw recently that one of the Battery Park developments was about to start closings in December at the mid 50%s sold (after over a year on the market, I think it was One River Terrace, or One Rockefeller or some such. I think many developments have more than one name/address these days just to confuse the buyer.) The other building (I think vision and green development are involved) has sold about 40% since it officially opened its sales office this spring. Other buildings that I had earlier been told had nothing now do (element, etc.). There's been some exremely interesting marketing pracices these last couple of years.

I am in for any email threads.

kg1000, sberg25, mdpgkg -

Please send me an email at jma0513@yahoo.com, and we will get an Onyx owner's thread going. This is purely non-commercial and for owners only.

There are 52 units listed as active on StreetEasy. If you pull up the listings, they all say "3 units left." Just maybe CORE hasn't updated the listing status of these units, but I'd be cautious.

Honestly, does anyone know what is really going on with this building? It isn't that big a building and they supposedly started the facade over two months ago. It still looks like a mess from the street. Is this normal?

Any updates on sales / occupancy in this building? Did all of the active listings sell and close or were they pulled off the market?

They're at it again with this place. "Only three units left" was the anthem there last summer. Now they have 5 listed. Well, 5 listed, de-listed, relisted so that the apartments keep coming up as "new" in Streeteasy searches. In months of looking at this site, I haven't seen any building or people associated with it engage in more b.s. than Onyx Chelsea's marketers and agents.

Just five units left! Until we list the next 5...

Just 5 units left! Until we list the next 5...

I just don't understand why people don't get outraged by stuff like this. It's like everyone just accepts RE dealings in NYC have to lack integrity so why bother getting offended.

Actually, I think the Attorney General's office would be responsible for investigating these situations. It seems like false advertising to me. The Consumer Protection Act isn't my strong suit, but I would be happy to hear from anyone who knows if it might apply. This type of behavior definitely has skewed the inventory and time on the market numbers for Manhattan, and we all know how much perception in this market affects prices. Routinely I learn that buildings that reported being almost sold out 6 months ago (only 2 or 3 apts left, get them now!!!) still have 20 or so percent of their units left.

Also, hasn't the Onyx just moved from the porn star (CORE) to Corcoran (just another source of porn)?

From Curbed (4/23/08):

Onyx Chelsea: Chelsea's big black newcomer is drawing a lot of attention. "Many Onyx residents are having issues getting their punch lists fixed even six months after their move in dates. They are avoiding fixing the problems caused due to poor workmanship. Instead they are causing more damage with low cost alternatives." Writes another reader: "Five months ago my relative who lives in the Chelsea Onyx building had to be evacuated due to mold in her brand new apartment. Can you give me more scoop on the buildings progress thus far? Her floors are now buckling and there are other problems that I can't get into right now." Well, at least one buyer is happy.

http://curbed.com/archives/2008/04/23/new_development_gripewire_chelsea_edition.php#more

Buyers happy here?

Buyers happy here?

Sure, Why not be happy!

We're happy because is nice, quiet, clean and people living in are just great people...

There is a good size resale backlog developing in this building. All four post-Lehman closings have been at a loss vs. 2007 sponsor sales (no news there), with losses ranging from not too much to 15% on the latest closing (#4B, below). Then there are the transaction costs coming and going.

http://streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/507091-condo-261-west-28th-street-chelsea-new-york
12/12/2007 Previous Sale recorded for $1,578,287.
04/01/2010 Listed by Prudential Elliman at $1,695,000.
05/05/2010 Price decreased by 6% to $1,595,000.
06/09/2010 Price decreased by 6% to $1,495,000.
08/05/2010 Listing is no longer available.
09/13/2010 Re-listed by Prudential Elliman.
09/13/2010 Price decreased by 1% to $1,475,000.
09/30/2010 Listing entered contract.
10/25/2010 Listing sold.
10/25/2010 Sale recorded for $1,335,000.

Add nine more current listings/contracts with a mix of asking prices between somewhat realistic (a.k.a., below cost) and kooky and you've got a bit of a market going.

One thing that is starting to creep into the conversation here is the expiration of the tax abatement. Taking the current and various previous listings for 4A as an example, taxes are now $407 per month vs. $102 when initially sold/relisted in late 2007/early 2008. That picture isn't going to get any prettier as the rest of the abatement goes away over the next 7-ish(?) years. The ability to track this through time is a great example of the utility of SE's database of previous listings.

and the ground floor retail has never been occupied...can't be good from a revenue perspective

Building/finishes are great, staff is awesome and the neighborhood is nice as can be. Recently got a place here and couldn't be happier. Searched all over the city and looked at over 25 buildings. For the price, space and what you get its fantastic.

Judging from above there has been a lot of drama with the Onyx. Happy that is in the past.