How long does it take to get TCO?

It all depends....from 2 days to one year.

inoeverything is right. There's really no telling. Ask the sponsor when they expect it and then add may be a few weeks to that to be some what safe. Ask your broker if they offer a free extension if the rate expires.

The sponsor keeps delaying. First it was supposed to be March, then May, now it looks like July. Broker does not offer a free extension, however I can pay to extend the rate (for a limited amount of time). I guess there is no way to tell how long it will take... thanks anyway.

You may possibly want to re-lock to avoid extension fees if today's rate is lower than the rate you locked in at. sunny_hong@countrywide.com

hanana, your situation sounds very similar to mine. Did you actually have closing dates scheduled with the developer, or were these just "planned closings" that never happened?

You can see what permits and/or TCOs/COs have been issued or applied for at the NYC Buildings Dept. website: http://www.nyc.gov/html/dob/html/home/home.shtml

Or call the building dept at (212) 566-0042 (Manhattan) other boro's numbers are listed on the website. You will probably be placed on hold for a very long time and/or told to check out the website.

I am currently in TCO limbo hell as well, builder's attorney and broker keep saying two more weeks every two weeks so I don't think they know any more than I do from surfing the NYC DOB website.

Just an update that the TCO was finally approved! I kept checking the DOB website and that was better than waiting for a response from the developer. I knew two days before the developer's broker e-mailed me. Thanks everyone for your comments. Now I need to find an inspector (is that the term?) to do the walk-thru with me. Anyone know anyone who specializes in new developments?

hanana916:

For all my projects, I have always used Accurate Building Inspectors and find them to be absolutely terrific. I have no vested financial or business interest here, this is just an observation based on past personal experiences.

why do you need an inspector if you buying in apartment building?
Take piece of paper and pancil and wright everything you don't like down, then pass it to your lawyer.
At the day of actual closing come their again and see what was done (cross it off) and what wasn't. If something is't done, attach that list to the contract and ask your lawyer to hold some money in escrow and release it after your approval that all on the list is done and working.
good luck

elena
(broker)

elena:

you are one ignorant broker.

Not at all, just saving person some money.
Inspector is only good pre-contract, once the contract of sale is agreed upon and signed, inspector won't be able to do anything.
1. Contract doesn't have "SUBJECT TO inspection" written in it.
2. Sponsor carry waranty on some big tix items (it's a new development remember)
3. Inspectos work well for single family homes, where the burden of repair falls solely on the owner, not multifamily apartment buildings.
4. Better question to ask would be "how our reserve fund is going to form?" - that is for repearing those big tix items after sponsor waranty expires

Good luck

elena
(broker)

elena:

You're absolutely incorrect. In a new development, a punch list will be developed post contract signing at a much later date during a walkthrough close to the completion date. Having a professional inspector with you is one of the SMARTEST things a buyer can do. Not only should the inspector thoroughly go through the unit one is buying so that one can assemble a punch list that protects one's interests as much as possible (inspectors know FAR MORE what to look for than any buyer, broker, or lawyer would), they should also walk the common areas, roof, and plants in the basement to give the potential owner an idea of how well the building was built and possible areas of future concern. This is very helpful to boards when having various final negotiations with the building sponsors/developers.

Telling someone to "Take piece of paper and pancil and wright everything you don't like down" is ludicrous.

Exactly, punch list is developed in pre-closing stage. And only issues conserning your unit goes into it (scratches, mikrowave is dented, glass broken - you want replacement, walls dirty - you want repainting job, ets). If you are interested in mechanics of the multiunit building, its roof, pipe system, elevators and outside facade ( which, I agree, inspector knows FAR MORE about) - gess what? There is nothing you can do about it at pre-closing stage. To find out how well your building would be build, you had to search this developer prior work, or bring inspector at the time you view this property (pre-contract). After you have signed contract most likely with NO Mortgage Contingency, you have to close.

Plus CofO is inspection from the Department of Buildings, which makes sure all those big.tix items are working and people can live in this building. So bring an inspector in pre-closing stage after building went through an inspection is a waist of money. Buyer already spending tons of it. Be gentle.

May I ask which building you received the TCO for?

elena:

Wrong, yet again. And as far as your unit goes, and inspector knows FAR MORE what to look for in terms of potential alerts than you, as home buyer, does. Such as is the plumbing, heating, and electrical in your unit working properly and is it properly connected? Are the windows properly glazed and waterproofed? Are the floors properly installed? Do you walk around with an electrical charge reader testing all the sockets? Do you think a homeowner does? Can you tell if all the heating systems in your unit are operating properly?

And as to your assertion that "After you have signed contract most likely with NO Mortgage Contingency, you have to close," yes that is true, but having a building inspector go through the building gives you negotiating power AFTER the close. That's why, in a new build I was involved in, I was able to get a $16,000 cash payout AFTER closing for crappy floors that the inspector discovered during the closing process, and that I warned the builder/developer about prior to closing. A tenant DOES have legal rights, EVEN after closing, but you have to have a professional inspector lodge a formal complaint to that effect beforehand. Had I not done this, I would be $16,000 poorer.

An inspector in pre-closing is MOST assuredly NOT a waste of money, and is, in fact, a wise investment. Using brokers (or their advice) who don't know their job, though, IS most assuredly a waste of money.

Don't be gentle - be SMART.

malraux - thank you for your advice. I will definitely check out Accurate Building. I agree with you that I need to be careful here. When I looked at the unit last time, there were some flooring and plumbing issues that I was concerned about. I would feel much better having an expert look at them. As this is my first home purchase, could you give me an rough estimate on how much inspectors charge?

I'm thinking probably between $500 - $1,000. And be sure to take advantage and walk the entire building with the insoector during his rounds. You'll get a wonderful education into how your building was put together and the overall quality of the project. As for your personal unit, an inspector will be able to educate you on the problems and potential fixes. Well worth the expenditure. Again, I have no vested interest of any kind in Accurate, just have used them multiple times before and think they're absolutely professional.

Malraux, dear, since when you need an inspector for $1000 to discover crappy floors? Just look at them.
Turn on an off electrical switches, and you know if you have light or not.
And windows is standard in all units in the building, they won't change them in your unit unless it's broken. And to find out what kind of windows (glazing) is used, read your offering plan.
The only way to find out how well they installed in terms of waterproof, you have to wait untill rain comes. Unless your inspector plans to pour water on it from outside (which floor is this partmetn on?)
Bring along your mobile phone charger and plug into each electric outlet, if ligt on your phone turns on - it works, if it's not put it on the punch list.
Turn on your dish washer, flush toilet bowl, turn on water to see that your plumbing works and water has good pressure.
Same with heating sistem in your unit. Turn it on if it's central.
Use your common sense.

From my experience if one doesn't have vested interest in something, they say: "Here is 3 great inspector firms, please call them, choose one you like the most".

elena
(broker)

elena:

1.) As for floors, if all you're doing is looking at them, you're already showing how ignorant you really are.

2.) As for electrical, please explain how flicking a switch tells you if all the plug sockets are wired properly (and plugging in your cell phone ain't an ideal test, sweetie). My inspector unscrews the switch plates to check that the wiring is to code both in terms of quality and installation, as well as reviews the electrical box and breakers for a full inspection - or do you plug your cell phone directly into the electrical box?

3.) As for the windows, you're ABSOLUTELY WRONG. My building developers had to come back AFTER the contracts were signed and reglaze every window due to a material fault discovered by my inspector. And offering plans DO NOT tell what kind of glazing is used (that's seriously the stupidest thing you've said so far) - and besides, any offering plan allows the developer to switch the materials used at their discretion to something of "equal or greater quality" - supposedly. And as to waiting for rain to test the glazing, that's why my inspector bought a smoke balloon - or don't you even know what one of those is? You really are an idiot.

4.) Knowing whther your water is coming out at proper rated pressure is why inspectors use pressure guages on all the faucets. Looking at the the water flow (like the idiot you are) and saying "oh gee whiz, that looks pretty good to me" isn't a test. It's what an ignorant broker does.

5.) Turning your heat/AC on and off to see if it works is HARDLY a proper test of the system mechanics, darling.

6.) If a homeowner used YOUR common sense (such that is), I'm sure they'd feel that they got what they paid for.

7.) I suggest Accurate only because I've used them repeated times with good results. But they are more expensive than most. I don't have two or three others to suggest. Others I've used in the past have not been of the same caliber. What I CAN say is "Here are three great brokers, and Elena certainly isn't one of them."

I think elena should refrain on further comments on this topic given the schooling she just received.

I would like to know which firm elana is affiliated with so I can make sure I do not use either in any real estate transaction.

seriously, that is like going to a doctor's office with a brain tumor, having him ask you to "turn your head and cough" and feeling that was an adequate exam . . . !

Why should I refrain, I would like to know what inspector did with the floors, that she/he was able to get $16K back from the sponsor. And how did inspector tested heat/AC and the rest of the mechanics?

"As for electrical, please explain how flicking a switch tells you if all the plug sockets are wired properly?"
-- Yes, I should admit that certified electricians that connected those wires and tesred them are idiots too. And inspectors from the department of buildings are idiots for allowing building to get CofO with wiring not up to code, or water pressure less then allowed.

Material fault covered by manufacturer, and something like windows by sponsor for up to 6 years (if I am not mistaken). You, as a smart as you are, probably know that molecules of gas (smoke) are much smaller then molecules of water. So if you don't see visible marks from the warer next to a window (windows was not instaled right before your came there, it have been there for couple of months, through different kind of weather), so if you don't see any marks from water damage - it is fine. And if you see water marks next to a window, put it on a punch list.

I always use common sense, love. I would suggest to go to the walk through yourself first, look thoroughly, make a punch list (compare with other apartments in the building, that's how you discover that yours may miss a thing or two), and only if you discover something that you really don't like or that makes you suspisious, ask for a second(third) walk through and come with inspector.

And don't be paranoid.
Good luck

elena
(broker)

If you are spending the typical 1.5-2M+ on an apartment in a new dev spending the $1000 to have a hardcore inspector is a nominal figure that could pay dividends in many ways, some tangible and some intangible. I personally was planning on doing so before I read this and this thread just confirmed that plan.

I am not sure why barskaya is putting such effort into discouraging buyers from going down this route, other than it might introduce unwanted friction into her transactions.

It would also help if you could run your comments through a spellchecker before posting, it is painful to to read them.

Wow, barskaya.

I guess stupid is as stupid does.

We'll all be sure to drop by your open house this sunday -

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/168396-345-west-70-street-lincoln-square-manhattan

and see if your potential buyers think it's a smart move to buy this apartment through you based on your (supposed) expertise. Oh, and by the way, this weekend is a holiday weekend, so I wouldn't expect too many people at your open house, if I were you. Maybe you shpuld have thought of that (or looked at a calendar) before scheduling this....

Superquant,
Barskaya is putting such an effort into discussion, because she thinks that discussions are not about your or her EGO (we are not learning anything new by calling each other names), but about learning new things from each other experiences, that may help us in the future. If money not an issue, you may have inspection pre-contract to have advantage while negotiating the price, and pre-closing, just to make sure…

Unfortunately for some buyers after downpayment and closing costs, extra 1K is a big deal. And this discussion may give them some tips about what to look for.

Fortunately or unfortunately, but inspections are not common in New York in multifamily buildings new developments or resale (it’s just a fact of life).

I feel you. Although I don't think that the 1K is a hardship considering the cost of real estate in NYC. Buyer at this level is probably more worried about transfer taxes and other closing costs. The inspection seems like the LAST place you would want to save money on.

Also, as you might know, in most new developments the units are far from ready for inspection when you sign your contract. Usually they are just a gutted building or a rendering. Not much to inspect there.

malraux, dear, yes I am very active broker. And at above mentioned transaction I represent seller (That should tell you about my fiduciary responsibilities).
Regarding scheduling, why would it concern you that much?
Please stop by if you have time, smart and pleasant person is such an asset.

"...I would like to know what inspector did with the floors, that she/he was able to get $16K back from the sponsor..."

Inspector pulled off shoe molding to reveal improper installation that the developers tried to cover up, used laser leveling to show that the floor was not laid as level as it should have been, identified very minor cupping that could have become much worse due to dampness. I'm sure you pull off molding and bring a laser leveler with you to all your inspections, right?

"...And how did inspector tested heat/AC and the rest of the mechanics?..."

He started in the basement with a thorough review of all the systems, then used air flow tracking guages to confirm that flow up to the unit was within buildings specs. In addition, he used a thermometer/barometer to measure how quickly the unit cooled off and the air dried out at maximum settings to make sure the A/C was operating at desired capacity and within normalized threshholds. I suppose YOU do all that as well when you walk through with your pencil and paper, right?

"...As for electrical, please explain how flicking a switch tells you if all the plug sockets are wired properly?...Yes, I should admit that certified electricians that connected those wires and tesred them are idiots too. And inspectors from the department of buildings are idiots for allowing building to get CofO with wiring not up to code, or water pressure less then allowed..."

Actually, to grant a TCO, buildings inspectors do NOT check the items you just improperly discussed. They do NOT check the wiring in the walls after drywalling. And the 'certified electricians' you talk about are in many cases hacks working j-u-s-t within building spec code - just enough to get the job done, and not an inch more. And neither does the DOB do any onsight checking of individual units once the drywall is up. As for water pressure (especially in upper floors of hi-rises) it is VERY common to have below-grade water pressure and not know it - it's certainly something you cannot tell for sure by 'looking at the flow.' It's honestly embarrassing how little you know, how much you PRETEND you know, and the utter idiocy you portray as broker. Shame on you!!

"...Material fault covered by manufacturer, and something like windows by sponsor for up to 6 years (if I am not mistaken). You, as a smart as you are, probably know that molecules of gas (smoke) are much smaller then molecules of water. So if you don't see visible marks from the warer next to a window (windows was not instaled right before your came there, it have been there for couple of months, through different kind of weather), so if you don't see any marks from water damage - it is fine. And if you see water marks next to a window, put it on a punch list..."

My god, you actually managed to write an entire papragraph without saying anything. Bottom line, the smoke doesn't go THROUGH the window gaskets, you idiot, but if AIR is coming through the gasket, the smoke will blow around and show the air movement - and if AIR can get through the gasket, than so can WATER! It has nothing to do with the 'size of molecules.' (!!!) But the fact that you don't even know what this test is for or how it works once again displays your ignorance for all to see.

"...I always use common sense, love..."

Too bad you don't have nearly enough, love. You don't invest hundreds of thousands or millions of dollars on just common sense - or maybe you do, and that explains your utter lack of success.

"...I would suggest to go to the walk through yourself first, look thoroughly, make a punch list (compare with other apartments in the building, that's how you discover that yours may miss a thing or two)..."

R-i-g-h-t. Like a developer is going to let you walk through OTHER APARTMENTS AND COMPARE!! Were you dropped on your head as a baby?

Yes, transfer taxes and closing costs for real property are huge in New York State, and buyer pays his own and sponsor's part.

Regarding final walk trough, I had an experience last month on a new development unit where I was representing buyer.

Our first walk through was a disaster, because sponsor scheduled it day prior closing, but contractor didn’t finished the job. Basically we walked into a construction site. Nothing was ready. Anyway, we started with punch list going from room to room. We asked to look at the other finished apartments, that’s how we discovered small details to add to punch list (for example magnets on the closets doors, ets.). Punch list was forwarded to buyer’s attorney immediately to postpone the closing for a week. And seller’s attorney in order for them to put attention to what we wanted. We had to come back there two more times. Some items were deleted from punch list, some new ones added.

In the end our attorney put in escrow several thousand dollars, to release it only after buyer agrees with everything. There was a suggestion to attach penalty to each job on a punch list. If it's not done by the end of let’s say second week (because some things were re-ordered) buyers would get some money back to keep.

We didn’t get back anything from the sponsor, because during negotiations we were able to get $125K off asking price.

Malraux,
Yes, you convinced me, you are an inspector.

It’s a surprise to me that inspector was allowed to pull off shoe molding in the brand new apartment. What building was it?
I salute that you was able to get 16K back for it, but I doubt several things: It doesn’t cost developer 16K to rip floors of in single unit and re-install new one, so why did he agree to 16K?

Leveler, yes, I bring levelers, not laser ones, but we look at leveling of cabinets, floors, windows, shelves, ets. Sometimes we can use it as a negotiation tool to get some money back, sometimes we can’t (it depends on many things).

So, inspector went down to the basement and measured everything, and may be taught you how to use air flaw tracking gauges, so now you can do your superintendent's job, while other just call management company and say: “ My apartment number …, I have problem with A/C”, and get staff member to take care of the problem that same day.

It’s hard to believe that hacks doing electrical jobs. Do you know how dangerous it is? They may not be union, but they sure certified and know what they are doing to get the job done. No joke.

So let’s say your inspector discovered that your apartment on a higher floor has lower water pressure, which most of the NY high-rises do, then what? (I am just trying to see what can be done about it?) Will you terminate contract and lose downpayment?

About your knowledge on the test with smoke and window gasket, “If AIR can get through the gasket, than so can WATER!” – Not necessary, I explained why. And again you dial your Management Company number and say: “My apartment number is…”

Regarding: “R-i-g-h-t. Like a developer is going to let you walk through OTHER APARTMENTS AND COMPARE!!”
Developer is not there during the walk through. Broker who represents developer is, sometime his/her assistant with the keys. And this is exactly where being polite to people helps big time. Be nice to people, Malraux :)

So anybody have experience with any other recommended inspectors?

As conclusion I would say following:
I wouldn’t invite inspector in a newly developed multiunit building done by an established developer (let’s say Trump on Riverside Boulevard), cause most of the walk through would be about cosmetics. You won’t be left alone after closing, there will be management company, superintendent and army of staff to take care of all the problems, ets…

However, on a small developments (townhouse conversions with 3 - 10 units) OR projects done by small scale developers (even though there still be management company and super), I will start to bring inspectors and even pick up the bill, as a part of fiduciary responsibility to my buyer.

As conclusion I would say following:
I wouldn’t invite inspector in a newly developed multiunit building done by an established developer (let’s say Trump on Riverside Boulevard), cause most of the walk through would be about cosmetics. You won’t be left alone after closing, there will be management company, superintendent and army of staff to take care of all the problems, ets…

However, on a small developments (townhouse conversions with 3 - 10 units) OR projects done by small scale developers (even though there still be management company and super), I will start to bring inspectors and even pick up the bill, as a part of fiduciary responsibility to my buyer.

As conclusion I would say following:
I wouldn’t invite inspector in a newly developed multiunit building done by an established developer (let’s say Trump on Riverside Boulevard), cause most of the walk through would be about cosmetics. You won’t be left alone after closing, there will be management company, superintendent and army of staff to take care of all the problems, ets…

However, on a small developments (townhouse conversions with 3 - 10 units) OR projects done by small scale developers (even though there still be management company and super), I will start to bring inspectors and even pick up the bill, as a part of fiduciary responsibility to my buyer.