Jasper 114 E 32nd St

monthly costs are high. If you have not already check out the 29th Park Madison. Same general area, closer to Madison Square Park

I have looked at the building - seems nice. However, I am working under the assumption that within a few months many units will be available to rent at 1/2 the monthly cost of buying.

Here's a link to an older thread about this building:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/2265-jasper-new-condo

In line with the Core marketing group discussion, it seemed as if the building was almost sold out.
But, like The ONYX, now there are numerous listings in the Jasper.

Jasper taxes: Is this building tax abated? Are the $1040 taxes I see for units for the year or per month? The cost analysis on the site adds on the whole amount to calculate the monthly charges.

i agree with mbz. Since this is a conversion, you don't get any tax benefits. The building is right next to the homeless drop. Renting here is probably better than buying here if you really want to live here.

I live in the area and want to warn any potential investors (and renters for that matter) that this building is directly beside a homeless shelter. Visit the building between 6-6:30pm and you will see buses parked outside waiting to take hoards of pretty scary men to god knows where. These men harass and lunge at people walking down that block to the extent that I cross the street to avoid the abuse. I don't mean to be elitist but I simply would NOT want my family living beside that element.

I dont think that is elitist, I would call it rational.

$1.7MM to live next to a homeless shelter? I'd love to see the sales broker try to spin that one.

folks: the shelter really isn't that bad. when you walk by it, you can't even tell that it's there because they've done such a good job of "blending in". i've walked by numerous times to get a vibe for the place at different times, and it really is not noticeable. but i'll admit that i haven't gone by at the 6-6.30 timeframe that rabotm mentioned. and full disclosure here: i'm biased bc i think i'm gonna buy there. finishes are top-notch. location is like 20 feet from a subway stop. and you can't buy anything this nice in chelsea (which is where we've been mainly looking) for the price.

csn, thanks for comments. yes, the monthlies are kinda high. no tax abatement. i've done some present value calculations and it adds about $50K implicit cost to the price of the unit (is that the wrong way to think about it?). we did check out 29 park mad, which was nice but it just didn't "speak" to us the way jasper did.

cliff702, i never found any info that jasper was "almost sold out". can you post the link to this? my understanding is that they sold quite a bit (like 30% of the units) in the first 2 months of sales, and then sales have gotten really flat since then. can anyone confirm?

luciato - i am not sure i agree with that..i walked by a few times (live in this neighborhood) and i always see creepy people standing on the way. It is not appealing to live in an over-expensive condo building right next to that..pretty depressing i say. But again that's your call.

Having said that, I really love their model apartment, finishes and appliances. But prices will come down to earth by the time they finish the construction (Q2 of 2009). I heard from the sales person that the developer is open to negotiating taxes.

Rule of thumb ... Every $100 in extra monthly costs is equivalent to about $30K in purchase price

$100 * 12 / (6% rate - 2% rebate on tax deduction)

I lived in the area for a number of years and walked past the drop off center nearly every day. Frankly, I barely even noticed that it was there. If I were interested in the Jasper, I wouldn't give the existence of the homeless drop off center a second thought. It just doesn't impact the block in any meaningful way.

manhattanguy -- where did you hear Q2 of 2009 for finish date? they've been saying "fall 2008" and we figured this meant Q1 of 2009. but Q2? that's news to me!

billshiers -- i totally agree with you. we walked by LOOKING for the place after reading that there was one near by. we couldn't find it. we only found it after literally walking into the front door of the place and asking what the building was. (but actually, by the time you physically walk into the shelter, it becomes pretty clear without asking.)

Luciato: I'm forced to reference myself here since I deleted the Streeteasy update I refer to below.
cliff702
about 3 months ago
Jasper all sold out?
Streeteasy update email to me about availablity gives "off the market"/"no longer available", but not "under contract"

AptSeeker
about 3 months ago

There are still apartments available but the ones listed on Street Easy have gone into contract already. My husband and I went into contract on an apt in this building and it is now listed as "no longer available". We looked at many buildings and feel that this one offers a great layout, nice amenities, convenient location and has the aesthetics we like without being too modern. We also feel that this neighborhood is blossoming at rapid speed.

CondoBuyer
about 10 weeks ago
AptSeeker, my wife and I also

verain: not sure i agree with your calculation. what i did is the following:

1) the tax abatement for new developments lasts for 10 years, so that after the 10 years, everything is "apples to apples" (that is, in 10 years, the no-tax-advantage status of the jasper would be a moot point because the new developments wouldn't have the tax advantage). so we're only talking about a 10 year horizon to "price".
2) the taxes are approximately $1000/month higher at the jasper. i assumed a 30% tax deduction, so thta's a $700/month payment. so in total cash flows, that's $84,000 (=$700 X 12 months X 10 years).
3) but those cash flows are in the future, so we can present-value back the cash flows using some "reasonable" discount rate. i used a 6% annual rate (which is 0.5%/month). when i do that, it comes to about $64,000.

but by your calculations, using the "$30K for every $100" rule, that would mean that i should tack on $300,000 onto the purchase price! that's a pretty big difference. i'm missing something......

cliff702: ok, now i'm totally confused. when i go to the jasper link from streeteasy, i see 88 units total. of the 88, i see 22 that have been sold, 28 "in contract", and 28 as "active listings". i've just noticed now that that doesn't total the 88 units total. these numbers have essentially not changed since i've been looking on this site -- which admittedly is only a couple months now. but i've always seen the 28 or so as being "active listings", which i interpret to mean "still up for sale". (but hey, i'm a newbie at this.)

thanks for the info. and thanks for the link to the other site.

FYI, the taxes ARE indeed monthly numbers. they are not a "new development" so that they don't get the new-development tax abatement. they do qualify for the J-51 abatement, which is for conversions north of the WTC, but from the numbers i've seen, the abatement for this is very puny -- like $700 a YEAR or something like that. and i'm told that from the sponsor's point of view, dealing with the paperwork to push this abatement through is so much trouble, sometimes they just don't bother given cost vs benefit. (but hey, i don't know about you, but $700 is still money to me!) ....

luciato - i was told the closing will be in Feb '09. But you have to add 2-3 more months buffer. Trust me most new constructions/renovations are never completed on time. You are realistically looking at an April 09 closing. Also if I were you I would negotiate on the taxes. The developer might give you a concession in this building.

$100 / month for life = ~ $300K @ 6% pre-tax / 4% post-tax interest rate
if you want 10 years, you can do that calculation the long way which you may have done; however, you took a tax deduction on the monthly RE taxes and then used a pre-tax rate (compare to your mortgage rate, pre-tax).

I have lived in close proximity of the Jasper for the last 6 years (@ 30th/Park from '02-'06 and 32nd/3rd from '06 to present) and I would agree with Billshiers comment that this homeless shelter USED to be of very little impact to neighbourhood. However, over this last year, I have noticed a much more noticeable presence and it is often hostile. For years, I never knew this shelter existed but started investigating after being cursed at/catcalled/lunged at several times when walking by (many women between the ages of 15-50 seem to get the same treatment.) In my research I found that the National Alert registry (the national registry of convicted sex offenders) has a man convicted of second degree rape that lists 120 East 32nd St as his current checkpoint/address.
I really have no ulterior motive in dissuading anyone from investing in this property but as a mother/wife/concerned woman, I would urge Luciato and other potential buyers/renters to make sure they will be comfortable with their next door neighbours.

wow that's not comforting. not sure why i haven't seen anything bad in the area. every time i pass by, the place seems to have this clean, wooden facade that looks like the entrance to a i-dont-know-what, but certainly not a shelter. true, i have seen the occasional riff-raff outside, but i just figure: we're in the middle of manhattan; of course there's riff-raff. NEVER did i get cursed/catcalled/lunged at. strange. but thanks for the info. FYI, the parking lot next door has just been closed off -- perhaps something new coming up there? and then hopefully the shelter is next!

Luciato - I wholly agree with you. Having lived in Manhattan for 11 years, I readily accept that this is a big urban center and 'riff-raff' is part of it's inherent charm. I am a big time fan of all the conveniences and amenities in Murray Hill which is why I have lived in this nabe for so long. My "warning" was just meant to give you and other buyers anecdoctal disclosure. At the end of the day, I hope you do buy at the Jasper and that having an upscale condo there and perhaps the conversion of the adjacent parking lot means that a block revival is in pending - it can only be good for the overall community. Now, if only a Brother Jimmy's WASN'T being built at 31st/Lex.... Best of Luck!

i was told by the Jasper sales agent that the parking lot next to the condo is going to be replaced by a high-end hotel. It is scheduled to be completed in 2010. I would still be concerned if i were you about the homeless drop.

luciato - if you had a choice, would you rather live next to a homeless shelter or not next to one.

jenny -- the obvious answer to that is NO, i'd rather not live next to a homeless shelter. but in my limited experience in hunting for the "perfect" condo, i've found that there really never is that simple a choice. it's trading X for Y, sacrificing A for B, etc., whether that's location, finishes, amenities, whatever. the fact of the matter is that for me, the Jasper -- which is not the *perfect* condo (is there such a thing?) -- comes really close to the things that we are looking for. for us, it was about having very nice finishes, having very good amenities, having a building that was close to a subway station, and, i happen to love terraces (which the unit we are interested in has). and oh btw, we'd like to pay $1 for it. :) obviously, that last part ain't happening. so given the 20+ new developments we've seen, the Jasper seems to be best for us along a whole range of different things on our list. homeless shelter, i'm obviously not a fan of, but we can't get *everything* we want. (though we can get the terrace and nice finishes at a reasonable price!)

rabotm - thanks for the warm wishes. now all i have to do is pull the trigger and BUY! :)

FREE MEALS! did anyone read this about the Jasper:
http://ny.therealdeal.com/articles/murray-hill-condo-lures-buyers-with-week-of-free-meals

ok, discuss...

Neat. I was planning to go anyway even though the non-abated taxes are high, I didn't like when they advertised almost sold out and now there are 28 available, and how the openhouse promo (right here on street-easy) says the doors will be open, but in smaller print says to call and make an appointment...

Maybe I should pack a lunch in case I missed free-meal small print....

we bought a 1BR unit in the Jasper. we are now officially "biased" in our views about this beautiful place. so from here on in, please, be kind about your posts here ;)

Congratulations. Good luck and enjoy your apartment and all the building amenities in the best of health.

Luciato, congrats! Curious, on which floor did you buy?

cliff702, have you gone for food? how was it? (the food i mean!)

Paul: not yet. Aiming for Thursday.

NYC333, it's just a modest 1BR. but i am VERY happy about the purchase and i don't care what anyone says about the sky falling, the world ending, the fit hitting the shan. i'm happy i bought. :)

congrats luciato! i was actually pretty interested in the jasper also. none of this doom and gloom is scaring you, i guess?

question for those in the know: i recently bought in the jasper. and i also recently noticed that the listings for jasper on streeteasy show the apartment numbers. funny thing is that the unit i purchased is still showing up as an "active listing" (though it should be "in contract"). it has been almost 3 weeks. does anyone have any idea why this might be? (please, no theories about CORE being evil.)

Luciato, I also bought an apt in Jasper. My apt is under "in contract." But, I purchased a couple months ago.

CondoBuyer, good to meet you! i'm very excited about the move, and am just counting down the months, weeks, days. wish there was a way for all of us future residents to get in touch and start building a nice community. did you see this article?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/18/realestate/18cov.html?ref=realestate

we should get some kind of internet message board going...

in any case, a few questions for you (or anyone else for that matter):
1) about what kind of price per square foot is considered reasonable for murray hill (not necessarily re: Jasper)?
2) do you have any sense of what a Jasper unit would go for (per sqft) in comparable neighborhoods?
hope you understand the nature of my questions. just wanna confirm my intuition on price per sqft of what i paid.

Luciato: Sorry, I'm not a real estate expert... but, the new developments in the area are The Charleston, Twenty9th Park Madison, and Sky House (that I'm aware of).

Agreed! Check out the Yahoo Group "JasperCondo" (one word without the space).

thanks! looks like you did some work to set up the group. i've signed up. we just have to wait for the other 26 buyers to sign up. i'll be waiting for lively discussion there!

anyone hear any new news about jasper and its progress?

i was looking into this place and they told us that the building won't be ready until March 2009.

does anyone know what the real inventory is for the jasper?

i've been following it pretty carefully, and my sense is that the inventory listed on streeteasy is fairly accurate -- about 24 units remain unsold. they've been at he 40-50% sold mark for quite a while, and in the last couple months seem to have passed that mark. but really, this is just an educated guess.

like other developments, i think march 2009 is probably closer to july 2009.

i have been e-mailing lately with the building on updates with the inventory and closing dates. the recent update I got was as follows: they were almost 70% sold as of July 9th. closing dates are still slated for "1st quarter" starting from the ground up. my husband and i got a letter last month stating the same information on the closing dates. - but I agree - like other developments - could be delayed a bit.

Condo Buyer: the yahoo group is a great idea. i will need to check it out.

I wonder how this is doing given that there is no abatement and so the monthly expenses are high. And the really marginal neighborhood it is in.

Let's get some examples of what is happening in the market.

Can not figure out the numbers. 20 available and 36 in contract would make a total of 56 units. However the building has 80 units. What happened to the unaccounted units? are they off the market? why? this is an amazing development and the outpatient clinic next door will close soon. Anyone?

who did you hear that from, nimrod? about the shelter next door closing soon?

Nimrod19 I totally agree that the shelter next door will be closing soon. My husband did some due diligence on the property and it turns out that in 2006 the building where "Mainchance" is currently situated was bought by a real estate group called Alrose according to the NYC Dept of Buildings website. Alrose is a Real Estate development group that has invested in real estate and owns hotels such as the prestigious Garden City Hotel. The lot next to Mainchance has been closed off in anticipation of a boutique hotel expansion. I believe it only a matter of time before the shelter is relocated.

seemes like there is no activity in the building.news?

jasper dead! money back!

Link?

web site is alive and well for what that's worth

luciato - i know you were one of the early buyer. Is it true Jasper is dead? Not saying I am surprised at all.

Developer defaulted.no construction for several months. Is there a group of buyers organized to get back deposits ASAP?

The developer did not default. They sold the building to a hotel developer. They said we can expect a check in 60 days. Does anybody know if this is legal? We just found out the other day.

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/11/30/realestate/30deal2.html?_r=1&ref=realestate

November 30, 2008
Big Deal
A Condo Checks Out, a Hotel Checks In
By JOSH BARBANEL

THE Jasper on East 32nd Street, which has dark wood paneling and a huge fireplace in the lobby, promised an “unexpected blend of warmth and chic style,” according to its Web site. But the condominium was in an unexpected place: a converted prewar office building on a commercial block in Murray Hill.

And for a time, the project, designed by Ishmael Leyva, attracted a steady stream of buyers drawn by the fine finishes, stylish pool and large fitness room, and prices below those in many other Manhattan neighborhoods.

“What market slowdown?” gushed a newspaper account a year ago, announcing that contracts had been signed on 27 of the 80 apartments within three weeks.

But with the economy faltering, sales at the project, at 114 East 32nd Street, between Park and Lexington Avenues, sputtered to a halt in the last few months, after a total of 43 apartments had gone into contract.

Last week, the developers, facing both an uncertain market and the need to provide several million dollars in new capital to cover cost overruns, decided to pull the plug on the condominium, and return the deposits of would-be buyers.

Harry Jeremias, the founder of the Harch Group and the project’s lead developer, said he had come to an agreement with a European investment fund to convert the 18-story building into a 200-room boutique hotel, to open in about a year.

The new plans, he said, will keep many of the features of the condominium, including the name Jasper, much of the lobby, the pool, the Peruvian walnut floors and the custom-made Waterworks fixtures. He said the current investors would retain a minority interest in the property.

As a result, Mr. Jeremias said, the cost of converting the building to a hotel would come in well below the cost of building a similar hotel, though hotel occupancy and profits are likely to falter in the near future.

“We had a great product out there and a branding that was incredible,” he said. “Nobody anticipated the market taking such a dramatic shift. So now we will roll with it.”

Shaun Osher, the founder and head of Core Group Marketing, which has been selling the Jasper apartments, said he had begun calling buyers to let them know that the condominium had been canceled and offering to help them find other apartments, although the change had not yet been filed with the attorney general’s office as of last week.

Mr. Jeremias said that until now, only two buyers had sought to back out of contracts — one had been transferred overseas, and the other was a former employee of Bear Stearns, which collapsed in September.

Now, he said, while buyers may be frustrated about losing a “beautiful project,” many will also be relieved of the uncertainty of finding a mortgage and completing a purchase in the current market.

When things go wrong in Manhattan, “there is a Plan B and a Plan C,” Mr. Jeremias said. “In a lot of different markets throughout the country, they don’t have a Plan B or a Plan C.”

luciato
1 day ago
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The developer did not default. They sold the building to a hotel developer. They said we can expect a check in 60 days. Does anybody know if this is legal? We just found out the other day.

No, it is illegal, but they are hoping you forget and don't know how to telephone a lawyer (they assume you don't watch tv after midnight) to sue for equitable and legal relief. duh

just talked to my lawyer. he told me that doing this was totally in the realm of the terms laid out in the contract -- and that almost all new develpoment contracts have this "out" in them.

Rainer...
Have you read any condo offering plan in the last 5 years?

When you have a "luxury" condo right next to a homeless shelter in a shitty area, what do you expect?

i "expect" to find myself somewhere in Chicago.

garbage condos like jasper or gramercy by starck, just to name a few, don't get built in Chicago. the luxury condos that have gone up are superior to anything NYC has put up in the last few years.

enjoy the koolade dude

I think you should be rather happy that you've been given a golden ticket.

ubbatubba and rufus

Why would I buy a piece of property in a place that for decades is losing its population (and can't win a World Series)? It is a bad investment? Chicago is averaging +25% decline in home prices. Most in Manhattan is only down in low single digits and some are even up. Uptown is in double digit range but compare that to Chicago's Southside (30-40% down)!

Chicago will always be behind LA, SF, Miami, Boston, etc. and all of those are behind NYC. Accept it. Live it. You will live a more fulfilling life.

hi malraux. you've been giving me advice on yves. ... yes, we are quite glad that we have been given a golden ticket (ie, refund of our deposit -- though we haven't received the check yet!). ... in some ways, we are even "up" -- because if the 15% were not locked in escrow as deposit, i'm very certain that we would've had the money in the stock market! ... in any case, we are also a bit sad because we did love the jasper quite a bit. (we are fairly young with no kids and *appreciate* some grit in the neighborhood; homeless shelter is not that big a deal to us.) oh well.

The developer's lawyer sent a message that "the developer got an offer he could not refuse" meaning he sold but took us for a long ride. He was defaulting on his payment to the bank and was planing an out for himself for the last 4 months. We have to wait for the A.G amendment before we get our money from the escrow agent while the developer is making a profit?what a sleaze. Finally, what about the Core group? a broker who is in bed with the developer protecting him and trying to make money of the buyers by offering them other apartments in the market. They will not get my business for sure.

007: is there nothing we can do about this process at all? just sit on our hands and wait? no sense of negligence (or something) that we could pin them for? how frustrating. i have not even received a call from anyone at jasper. had to hear from my buy-side broker (maybe this is normal). i'm even more frustrated because i *just* deposited the additional 5% deposit (contractual) like 10 days ago! also, i'm probably being paranoid, but mine is one of 4 units that is still listed as "in contract". meanwhile, no word from anyone...

please let me know of any resources that are keeping you abreast of stuff. thanks.

I am sure there is a way if you wish to spend money on lawyers. Otherwise your only option is to wait and while waiting, spread the word about the developer and Core. I wonder how he is doing with his other building in Soho? it is extremely frustrating and unjust. A.G should force him to compensate buyers.

have any of you that bought in jasper been contacted by anyone about when we get our deposits back? i haven't heard a THING yet.

we were denied our request. AG is next step.

“We had a great product out there and a branding that was incredible". Totally, dude.

Luciato and 007 be sure to have your attorneys and or buyers broker send in writing a request that is dated and sent return receipt to the developers offices for the reimbursement of your deposit. Also be sure that you collect your interest from the time it has been in escrow! Unfortunately the city and developers offices can be quite slow to respond, and you want to make sure that you have a recorded timeline to get your money back in as efficient a manner as possible.

007 and Dax: is it possible that you recommend an attorney for me? i'm not sure i want to stay with my current attorney.

luciato, I have a couple good attorneys I could recommend, let me find out if one of them already has intimate knowledge of the Jasper and then I can give you a name. I will then post it here. 007 did they give you at least a timeline for the expected return of your deposit?

in 'few weeks' is the typical answer "your money is safe". I do believe that the outer time table is March 1st, We bought in 12/07 so we are really upset. You should continue to send letters complaining and demanding your money back every few weeks. you should be clear that you will seek damages in addition to the refund.Finally contact the new york times as a follow up on their disinformation on 11/30

007, i do believe our money is safe, right? there's no "hole" in the escrow, is there? lest you think i'm being sarcastic: this is a serious question.

I hope it is safe. There were cases that lawyers stole money and banks went bankrupt. I am anxious.I will feel safe only when it is in my account. our money has been locked since December 2007> have you received the 1099 from the bank? I have not!

i did receive my 1099. i think a week ago.