Does anyone know why there are no listings for The Harrison? They sold 6 apartments last year and then nothing else. The sales office is open next door to the site, but always looks very empty. are they waiting out this downturn, hoping (a silly strategy in this market) that things will turn around?
We live in Phoenix but are moving to NYC w/n the next year. We went to the Harrison sales office in late March 08. The sales woman was VERY snooty and acted like she was doing us a favor. There were numerous units available at the time we visited. We were so unimpressed however, that we immediately threw all the sales materials in the trash upon leaving. If they are waiting and hoping for a change in the market, they are not being very realistic considering their way overpriced offering.
We bought in the Harrison back in November--We had been on the waiting list to get an appointment to buy for over 6 months--It is my understanding that the building is more than half sold (may be as much as 70%)If you go to the Harrison website, you can find out just which units are still available--There are only 4 of our particular unit in the building and all 4 are sold! As for the 'snootiness' comment, I understand what you mean but I think that is just a tactic to weed out serious buyers--everyone has only been 'charming' since we established ourselves as serious!
fleurdelys: It's nearly impossible to get reliable information on pre-closing contracts and availability in any development, even in the best circumstances. In a slow market, sales offices are especially cagey. Often, "70% sold" means they've sold 70% of the released units, which may only represent a portion of the building. At the Harrison, you're dealing with masters of snob appeal and manufactured scarcity. They also have a history of delivering a solid product, so I'm not saying it's all smoke and mirrors. But as a contracted buyer, you have a vested interest in the marketing pitch being true. So unless you have inside connections or an incredibly good attorney, your remarks have to be discounted for the possible "rose-tinted glasses" factor. Nothing personal - it's just human nature.
As I stated above, for someone who walks by the sales office on a daily basis, it is always empty. The selling prices look quite inflated, especially in this environment. But time will tell.....
For what it's worth, when we visited in March, we walked in off the street with no appointment and were immediately given the sales pitch. As for using snootiness to weed out serious buyers, this could very well be true, but it has a real downside -- we are "serious" and plan to purchase within the next year but have no intention of returning to that building.
West81st--I completely understand and agree--and yes, guilty, now that I am contracted I do concede to the 'rose-tinted glasses' factor; however, all that being understood and said, we are happy we bought there because of the reputation of the builder--reading some of the 'horror' stories about less reputable ones on this site had made me think twice about new developments--Nima, I, too, was somewhat turned off at first but we had to weigh that against the final product and in the end, The Harrison is exactly where we want to live--as you all know, only time will tell whether we made a 'good' choice or not-
fleurdelys: The Harrison seems like the "conservative" choice - in the best sense of the word. I hope it works out well for you and the other buyers who have taken the "safe" path - snooty marketing notwithstanding. A successful, high-end condo along that stretch of Amsterdam would be good for the neighborhood.
I'm curious to see whether many parents in the Harrison wind up sending their kids to P.S.87. The marketing material (and pricing) seem aimed more at families who would favor private schools. On the other hand, part of the justification for the high prices should be that public school is a viable option, at least through 5th grade. The worst-case scenario for the local schools would be if affluent new arrivals in buildings like yours deplete the available slots in special District 3 programs for gifted kids, but spurn the General Education programs if they don't get into G&T tracks, Anderson, etc. P.S.87 is very strong on the Gen Ed side; but for many of the achievers who can afford the Harrison, that may not be enough. Obviously, each family's circumstances and priorities are different. We'll see how it plays out, child by child.
West81st makes a good point. Both my children got to PS 87, and we love it. But anyone who is spending $2.5mm on a 3 bedroom is more likely than not to send their kids to private school if they fail at getting into G&T. It is a shame, because the building is adjacent to the school. so convenient for Harrison dwellers.
I had a fairly unpleasant experience with the Harrison team as well. I visited I believe around Janaury and although I have been looking downtown, my wife and I would love to stay on the westside. We are looking for 2500+ sf ideally, for 3 - 4 million. We got major snob factor at the Harrison and were shown plans for a 1900 sf 4 bedroom and a 2100 sf 3 bedroom, both for over 4 million. We are qualified buyers and even have some relationships with the owner/developer (which we didn't share). We don't love the size of the building (large for our taste), and for that kind of price would rather have bought larger units or done a combo of a much bigger size at Linden78 around the corner - which is essentially all accounted for now.
It has been pretty frustrating finding something that we like given our parameters - we may actually ultimately end up in Tribeca, Soho or the West Village and give up our runs in Central Park in order to get the quality space we seek for not much more than 4, and hopefully less - or we will wait a while and buy 3 floors in a townhouse when the time is right...
We also got an apartment, back in December after having been on a waiting list. Similar experience in the sales office, but we decided to look beyond that, since the snooty woman in the sales office will not be living with us:) 1) We want to be on the UWS and this is prime location 2) there won't be any new development of that size with those amenities around there for a long time, because there are so many historic buildings 3) Related is a great developer that deliver what they promise 4)It's in a good school district. Yes, we are planning on sending our child to P.S. 87 because I do believe in public schooling, that's the experience I would want for my children (granted this is a good school). I don't think (and i don't hope) that we are alone in having that philosophy, even if we could afford to send our children to private schools. It's not all about the $$$ people, please don't assume things about people just because they just buy a condo in a nice building!
And also, we actually were trying to buy another apartment there recently, so we got to know what they had left, so it is actually true that they are around 80% sold.
Humla: Thank you for your post - informative and encouraging stuff. Best wishes for a smooth closing and a happy move. Sorry if we seemed to be stereotyping Harrison buyers.
Knowing the RAMSA/Related team, they will produce a quality product for sure. It will be architecturally b o r i n g, but it will be well built. Not spectacular (they are good business people too), but solid. They are indeed masters of creating "understated hype".
I'll bet that a microscopic fraction of the children in that building will ever see the inside of a public school. I know similar buildings, in equally good neighborhood, with even better public schools, where the parents buy into the hood because it's politically fashionable, but then shuttle their kids to private schools. The snob factor in the Harrison will equate nicely with private school.
rvargas; I agree. Totally boring and crowd-pleasing architecture for sure. And it's just hilarious that people buy into a building because of the supposed 'Stern factor'. Like he has anything to do with the actual apartment that you'll live in. They are effective boxes in the sky (maybe better than some, but still) with 'luxurious' finishes. And yes, I am a snob, if that means wanting a new solid product and not wanting to deal with old coop buildings with airocons hanging out of the windwos and annoying coop boards. Just had enough of that. And you are probably right about private schooling and the Harrison. But don't worry, our children will be responsible respectful citizens and maybe they can teach the other kids in the playroom at the Harrison some social responsibility:) What can I say, I'm an optimist.
They just started to put the faux brick fascade on. Has a cheap, manufactured look. Not sure what it will look like when on the whole building, but it looks sloppy.
Humla--We are right there with you--we bought for all the same reasons as you and really hope that most of the other tenants will share our viewpoint. Look forward to meeting you 'neighbor'!
I live right next door and have been watching the building go up. (Thankfully I still have some of my view.) They seem to be doing a pretty good job - but then again - I'm not in construction.
After walking up 76th today, I have to agree with dlafronz about the "brick" sheathing. I imagine it will be a lot less conspicuous when the windows are in.
I have no horse in this race, so I think that my comments are relatively unbiased. The prices listed for The Harrison are 2000+/square ft. Just a hunch, but this building, more than any recent new development on the UWS, will be the one that everyone says in 18 months, "Wow, what was I thinking when I signed that contract!"
dlafronz. not sure where you are getting those numbers, I do have a horse in this race and paid under $1300/sf. Granted, that was before any pricing amendments, but still, I doubt that the average pricing is up around 2000/sf at the end of the day. I agree about the brick, unfortunately. I do think that once the limestone will come up, it will offset it a lot. They can't make limestone look cheap! I hope:)
I would say not representative at all. It's the 'stop the bleeding' phase of the project where a developer like this can afford to sit on a few remaining listings for a while, to get a much higher price out.
As the ugly fascade on the Harrison continues to go up, and as the stock and job market continue to founder, this building will become the "white elephant" of the UWS.
The facade will look fine. This will be an elegant building. Nothing more. The big advantage to the pre-fab stuff is that it holds up much better than actual bricks. Masons these days just don't have the craftmanship that they used and the next thing you know, a few years after your building has gone up, you have scaffolding on it and an assessment for brick work.
As for this building being a white elephant, doubtful. If the market goes down, everyone will have overpaid (at least in the short term) for any new building.
"The facade will look fine. This will be an elegant building."
I have to disagree. Walked by it today and it looks like something built for the Vegas strip. Looks fake, fake, fake. Won't be that bad if the Harrison offers Gondola rides, white tiger magic shows, and Celine Dion concerts.
JM is right. IT has this teal border that looks cheesy, not to mention the previously mentioned faux brick.If I were paying 1500-2000 per sq.foot, I would expect nicer.
ugh!! yes, that facade is just hideous, and so cheap and tacky looking. I can't believe Stern's name is attached to this building! Aside from the thin layer of faux brick there is now a fake brownstone bottom section with the ugliest turquoise-colored trim. It is just horrible.
I went by the building Sunday and think it looks great. I honestly don't understand the complaints about the "faux brick"--it's real brick, albeit thinnner than ususal. There's nothing fake about it. Also, did anyone see the hunks of concrete the brick is attached to? It's a massive piece of stone and concrete that they are applying. Can anyone actually tell the thickness of the brick once the panels are hung?
It's the same pre-fab stuff Related's putting on the Superior Ink building. The two buildings look very similar (at least at this point in the construction). Superior Ink costs more per sq. foot.
Humla_ Great observation about the snooty sales woman not living in the building; Related has a proven track record of building solid buildings with a quality product at the end of the day. Related also has a reputation of putting their staff through rigorous on-going customer service training and that's who will make you, your family and your guests feel great living there and happy to be home at the end of a long day at work.
The Harrison
Does anyone know why there are no listings for The Harrison? They sold 6 apartments last year and then nothing else. The sales office is open next door to the site, but always looks very empty. are they waiting out this downturn, hoping (a silly strategy in this market) that things will turn around?
We live in Phoenix but are moving to NYC w/n the next year. We went to the Harrison sales office in late March 08. The sales woman was VERY snooty and acted like she was doing us a favor. There were numerous units available at the time we visited. We were so unimpressed however, that we immediately threw all the sales materials in the trash upon leaving. If they are waiting and hoping for a change in the market, they are not being very realistic considering their way overpriced offering.
We bought in the Harrison back in November--We had been on the waiting list to get an appointment to buy for over 6 months--It is my understanding that the building is more than half sold (may be as much as 70%)If you go to the Harrison website, you can find out just which units are still available--There are only 4 of our particular unit in the building and all 4 are sold! As for the 'snootiness' comment, I understand what you mean but I think that is just a tactic to weed out serious buyers--everyone has only been 'charming' since we established ourselves as serious!
fleurdelys: It's nearly impossible to get reliable information on pre-closing contracts and availability in any development, even in the best circumstances. In a slow market, sales offices are especially cagey. Often, "70% sold" means they've sold 70% of the released units, which may only represent a portion of the building. At the Harrison, you're dealing with masters of snob appeal and manufactured scarcity. They also have a history of delivering a solid product, so I'm not saying it's all smoke and mirrors. But as a contracted buyer, you have a vested interest in the marketing pitch being true. So unless you have inside connections or an incredibly good attorney, your remarks have to be discounted for the possible "rose-tinted glasses" factor. Nothing personal - it's just human nature.
As I stated above, for someone who walks by the sales office on a daily basis, it is always empty. The selling prices look quite inflated, especially in this environment. But time will tell.....
For what it's worth, when we visited in March, we walked in off the street with no appointment and were immediately given the sales pitch. As for using snootiness to weed out serious buyers, this could very well be true, but it has a real downside -- we are "serious" and plan to purchase within the next year but have no intention of returning to that building.
West81st--I completely understand and agree--and yes, guilty, now that I am contracted I do concede to the 'rose-tinted glasses' factor; however, all that being understood and said, we are happy we bought there because of the reputation of the builder--reading some of the 'horror' stories about less reputable ones on this site had made me think twice about new developments--Nima, I, too, was somewhat turned off at first but we had to weigh that against the final product and in the end, The Harrison is exactly where we want to live--as you all know, only time will tell whether we made a 'good' choice or not-
fleurdelys: The Harrison seems like the "conservative" choice - in the best sense of the word. I hope it works out well for you and the other buyers who have taken the "safe" path - snooty marketing notwithstanding. A successful, high-end condo along that stretch of Amsterdam would be good for the neighborhood.
I'm curious to see whether many parents in the Harrison wind up sending their kids to P.S.87. The marketing material (and pricing) seem aimed more at families who would favor private schools. On the other hand, part of the justification for the high prices should be that public school is a viable option, at least through 5th grade. The worst-case scenario for the local schools would be if affluent new arrivals in buildings like yours deplete the available slots in special District 3 programs for gifted kids, but spurn the General Education programs if they don't get into G&T tracks, Anderson, etc. P.S.87 is very strong on the Gen Ed side; but for many of the achievers who can afford the Harrison, that may not be enough. Obviously, each family's circumstances and priorities are different. We'll see how it plays out, child by child.
West81st makes a good point. Both my children got to PS 87, and we love it. But anyone who is spending $2.5mm on a 3 bedroom is more likely than not to send their kids to private school if they fail at getting into G&T. It is a shame, because the building is adjacent to the school. so convenient for Harrison dwellers.
I had a fairly unpleasant experience with the Harrison team as well. I visited I believe around Janaury and although I have been looking downtown, my wife and I would love to stay on the westside. We are looking for 2500+ sf ideally, for 3 - 4 million. We got major snob factor at the Harrison and were shown plans for a 1900 sf 4 bedroom and a 2100 sf 3 bedroom, both for over 4 million. We are qualified buyers and even have some relationships with the owner/developer (which we didn't share). We don't love the size of the building (large for our taste), and for that kind of price would rather have bought larger units or done a combo of a much bigger size at Linden78 around the corner - which is essentially all accounted for now.
It has been pretty frustrating finding something that we like given our parameters - we may actually ultimately end up in Tribeca, Soho or the West Village and give up our runs in Central Park in order to get the quality space we seek for not much more than 4, and hopefully less - or we will wait a while and buy 3 floors in a townhouse when the time is right...
We also got an apartment, back in December after having been on a waiting list. Similar experience in the sales office, but we decided to look beyond that, since the snooty woman in the sales office will not be living with us:) 1) We want to be on the UWS and this is prime location 2) there won't be any new development of that size with those amenities around there for a long time, because there are so many historic buildings 3) Related is a great developer that deliver what they promise 4)It's in a good school district. Yes, we are planning on sending our child to P.S. 87 because I do believe in public schooling, that's the experience I would want for my children (granted this is a good school). I don't think (and i don't hope) that we are alone in having that philosophy, even if we could afford to send our children to private schools. It's not all about the $$$ people, please don't assume things about people just because they just buy a condo in a nice building!
And also, we actually were trying to buy another apartment there recently, so we got to know what they had left, so it is actually true that they are around 80% sold.
Humla: Thank you for your post - informative and encouraging stuff. Best wishes for a smooth closing and a happy move. Sorry if we seemed to be stereotyping Harrison buyers.
Knowing the RAMSA/Related team, they will produce a quality product for sure. It will be architecturally b o r i n g, but it will be well built. Not spectacular (they are good business people too), but solid. They are indeed masters of creating "understated hype".
I'll bet that a microscopic fraction of the children in that building will ever see the inside of a public school. I know similar buildings, in equally good neighborhood, with even better public schools, where the parents buy into the hood because it's politically fashionable, but then shuttle their kids to private schools. The snob factor in the Harrison will equate nicely with private school.
rvargas; I agree. Totally boring and crowd-pleasing architecture for sure. And it's just hilarious that people buy into a building because of the supposed 'Stern factor'. Like he has anything to do with the actual apartment that you'll live in. They are effective boxes in the sky (maybe better than some, but still) with 'luxurious' finishes. And yes, I am a snob, if that means wanting a new solid product and not wanting to deal with old coop buildings with airocons hanging out of the windwos and annoying coop boards. Just had enough of that. And you are probably right about private schooling and the Harrison. But don't worry, our children will be responsible respectful citizens and maybe they can teach the other kids in the playroom at the Harrison some social responsibility:) What can I say, I'm an optimist.
They just started to put the faux brick fascade on. Has a cheap, manufactured look. Not sure what it will look like when on the whole building, but it looks sloppy.
Humla--We are right there with you--we bought for all the same reasons as you and really hope that most of the other tenants will share our viewpoint. Look forward to meeting you 'neighbor'!
fleurdelys- that's great! I cannot wait to see the place. Hopefully the delays won't be too bad.
I live right next door and have been watching the building go up. (Thankfully I still have some of my view.) They seem to be doing a pretty good job - but then again - I'm not in construction.
After walking up 76th today, I have to agree with dlafronz about the "brick" sheathing. I imagine it will be a lot less conspicuous when the windows are in.
West and dla - I saw it today - ugly! I hope it's better with the windows!
I have no horse in this race, so I think that my comments are relatively unbiased. The prices listed for The Harrison are 2000+/square ft. Just a hunch, but this building, more than any recent new development on the UWS, will be the one that everyone says in 18 months, "Wow, what was I thinking when I signed that contract!"
dlafronz. not sure where you are getting those numbers, I do have a horse in this race and paid under $1300/sf. Granted, that was before any pricing amendments, but still, I doubt that the average pricing is up around 2000/sf at the end of the day. I agree about the brick, unfortunately. I do think that once the limestone will come up, it will offset it a lot. They can't make limestone look cheap! I hope:)
About two thirds of the remaining active listings are priced at or near $2K/sq.ft. I'm not sure how representative they are of the project as a whole.
I would say not representative at all. It's the 'stop the bleeding' phase of the project where a developer like this can afford to sit on a few remaining listings for a while, to get a much higher price out.
As the ugly fascade on the Harrison continues to go up, and as the stock and job market continue to founder, this building will become the "white elephant" of the UWS.
I walked by this weekend. Ugh!
I disagree, I like the facade. I do dislike the construction which blocks my commute every morning though.
The facade will look fine. This will be an elegant building. Nothing more. The big advantage to the pre-fab stuff is that it holds up much better than actual bricks. Masons these days just don't have the craftmanship that they used and the next thing you know, a few years after your building has gone up, you have scaffolding on it and an assessment for brick work.
As for this building being a white elephant, doubtful. If the market goes down, everyone will have overpaid (at least in the short term) for any new building.
"The facade will look fine. This will be an elegant building."
I have to disagree. Walked by it today and it looks like something built for the Vegas strip. Looks fake, fake, fake. Won't be that bad if the Harrison offers Gondola rides, white tiger magic shows, and Celine Dion concerts.
Good one, JM! Your observations are always so poignant.
JM is right. IT has this teal border that looks cheesy, not to mention the previously mentioned faux brick.If I were paying 1500-2000 per sq.foot, I would expect nicer.
ugh!! yes, that facade is just hideous, and so cheap and tacky looking. I can't believe Stern's name is attached to this building! Aside from the thin layer of faux brick there is now a fake brownstone bottom section with the ugliest turquoise-colored trim. It is just horrible.
I went by the building Sunday and think it looks great. I honestly don't understand the complaints about the "faux brick"--it's real brick, albeit thinnner than ususal. There's nothing fake about it. Also, did anyone see the hunks of concrete the brick is attached to? It's a massive piece of stone and concrete that they are applying. Can anyone actually tell the thickness of the brick once the panels are hung?
It's the same pre-fab stuff Related's putting on the Superior Ink building. The two buildings look very similar (at least at this point in the construction). Superior Ink costs more per sq. foot.
Humla_ Great observation about the snooty sales woman not living in the building; Related has a proven track record of building solid buildings with a quality product at the end of the day. Related also has a reputation of putting their staff through rigorous on-going customer service training and that's who will make you, your family and your guests feel great living there and happy to be home at the end of a long day at work.