Drove by this place over the weekend. The building looks like its almost built! Also, I heard the sales office is supposed to be open but I haven't found it.
The building looks great, however I have several issues.
1. Suppose to be starting at over $1000 sq foot. ( in this market good luck, at $700 possible)
2. No on site parking (the garage is located across the street in their rental building)
3. NO gym in the building. (also located in the rental building across the street)
4. It's at least 7 blocks to the nearest train.
5. No grocery stores in the area ( market is coming soooooooooooon.)
6. Very little restaurants or bars.
7. Other buildings going up for the next 5 years. (it's one big costruction zone).
In all this building is going to have great views but at what cost. Not much to do in the area. Well good luck. Hope this helps.
Now wait and see others tell you how great the area and building is and how it is a great deal. And to tell you the truth I think the area has potential, just not these price's.
I'm so happy that the other commenters on this blog see the type of joke that dco is.
Let's see - waterfront property, luxury building, great amenities, midtown Manhattan views, 5 minute train ride to Grand Central, 20-30% cheaper than comparable buildings in Manhattan (assuming $900-$1000 psf, pricing hasn't come out yet but word is that prices will begin at under $1000psf), up and coming area with other luxury condos and lots of retail amenities opening every week - dco is right, this is terrible.
LICComments- Is all that I posted not true. I'll concede that no one knows for sure about the price. But is anything else I said a LIE.
So you answer the questions.
1. Where is the gym going to be located?
2. Where is the parking going to be located?
3. How many blocks is it to the Vernon Jackson station on the 7 Line.
4. Where is the nearest grocery store. (not in the future)
5. Is the entire waterfront area a construction zone? And will be for the next 5 years?
Tell me how I lied. I said the area does have potential and the building will offer great views.
I didn't say you lied, I said that your comments are a joke.
I don't know all the details of the building, but from what I hear:
1. The building will have a small gym and owners have access to a full gym in the building next to this one.
2. Parking across the street - so what? Many Manhattanites with cars don't park in the same building they live. This won't affect sales.
3. The walk to the subway hasn't stopped $3k and $4k+ rentals at the building right next to this one.
4. For anyone that moves into this building, there will be an Amish Market (same owners, may be a different name) and Duane Reade across the street.
5. New buildings will be going up north of this building, but not right next to it. Everything west is already developed, and there is one site south that will be getting a library building. There isn't any other construction directly around this building.
You conveniently didn't raise your #6 point, which is an out and out misstatement. There are many great bars and restaurants right nearby. Off the top of my head - Riverview, Masso, Cafe Henri, Lounge 47, Blend, Bella Via, Tournesol, Tuk Tuk, Lucky Mojos, Waterfront Crabhouse. Also right nearby in the area - Jackson Avenue Steakhouse, Manetta's, Manducatis, Water's Edge, on and on. There also will be a high-end Asian fusion restaurant either in the building or across the street. Bars - Beside the bars in the restaurants, there are Domaine Wine Bar, Dominies Hoek, McReilly's, Water Taxi Beach, on and on. Keep trying dco, eventually you'll say something substantively correct.
LICComent- At least you admitted that I'm more knowledgable about this building then you are.
1. Again the Amish market is not there yet. How about a regular supermarket?
2. Some of those rest. you mentioned are a $10 cab ride further in to Queens because you don't think people should have cars.
3. What does possible small gym mean? Maybe possibly not?
4. The fact that the rental is closer means that EC3 is further ( still 7 blocks)
5. New buildings will be going up to the north.These building will block the nothern views of 59 Bridge.
Actually you have made me think about one thing. Your better off renting in the building with all the amenities and being closer to the train.
dco - why is your rediculous comments everywhere in streeteasy? I have read many forums and everyone tells you how much nonesense you post. It's been very obvious to me that you will continue to do so, so I hope for everyone who reads ANYONE's comment that you do the research on your own and can use the comments as a starting point or guideline.
Please dco...you know what you are about and if anyone just reads any forums with your comments, I think they will realize in a short period of time that you are an absolute joke. You must really get some sick sense of pleasure posting your comments...quiet sad.
belugaw- If anything I posted above is a lie then point it out. Just because I have a difference in opinion about the market doesn't give the right to make stupid and pointless statements. The market is going to decline and there is nothing you or I can do about it. To think that comments on this site have the ability to sway the market is as ridiculous as your statements.
dco - you said there are very little restaurants or bars in the area - that was a complete misstatement.
You said there will be no gym in the building, when there may be a small gym. You really don't have a clue if there will be any type of gym or not.
You said there are no grocery stores in the area. Even if we don't count the Amish Market that will be open well before this building opens, Vernon Boulevard has at least 4 groceries/delis right where this building is located.
Your "construction zone" statement is also misinformation.
I think dco is envious of the large number of people in the NYC area who make more money than he does, so he goes into denial by believing that everything is overpriced and the market will crash down to his level.
LICComment- I'm envious of people who make more then me. I would love to make more money wouldn't you? What kind of a statement is that. The stores on Vernon are Bodegas. Do you know the difference?
LICComment I will tell you that you have a lot of heart. You have defended LIC with great honor. Let me be clear I think LIC does have potential. I guess we differ on the progress of the neighborhood and the value of the units. I just think the area is overpriced just like the rest of the city. And I truly wouldn't buy in EC3. What bothers me besides the price is all the amenities are in another building. And yes the walk to the train is far. I wouldn't want my wife walking home late from the train.
dco - let's talk straight for a second. Much of your problem has to do with the attitude that comes through your comments. If you had said: "This building is in an incredible location with great views, and is good quality, but I personally don't like that the gym is in another building and I would prefer something closer to the train, and I think prices are a little high for this area in this market right now" - I think everyone would respect that. But you come out, disparage this building and practically insult everyone who has bought an apartment recently by saying they should have waited because their investment are about to plummet, and come across very obnoxious. The fact is, there are a lot of people who find the prices to be affordable and like what this building has to offer. Some people will love it and others won't. As for the general market, for all your arguments that things will drop, there are good arguments for why prices won't drop. Try to be a little more tempered and reasonable with your views and comments.
As for money, I'm happy with my job and my life. Making more would be nice, but I'm not envious of anyone.
Interesting comment about bodegas - you should be careful where you go with that one. Actually, if you consider Mario's Deli a bodega, that's fine with me, I still think it's great.
dco - If anything I posted above is a lie then point it out:
Again the Amish market is not there yet. How about a regular supermarket? - Amish market will be there and it is confirmed. It's also going to be a very large Amish Market, more than 10,000 sq ft. When you ask how about a regular supermarket - would you consider Whole Foods not a regular supermarket? Have you even shopped at Amish Market to make that comment? I shop for groceries at the Amish Market on 9th Avenue and find everything that I need...so stop speaking out of your ass.
2. Some of those rest. you mentioned are a $10 cab ride further in to Queens because you don't think people should have cars - when was the last time you were in LIC? There are so many restaurants around the waterfront and on Vernon, within walking distance...the area is not desolate of restaurants that's for sure.
3. What does possible small gym mean? Maybe possibly not? - And possibly so! What kind of stupid comment is that??
4. The fact that the rental is closer means that EC3 is further ( still 7 blocks)- There are many Rockrose rentals there...I have been there and it is not a far walk from the subway at all.
5. New buildings will be going up to the north.These building will block the nothern views of 59 Bridge - did you forget about the entire view of the Eastside of Manhattan that is directly in front of this building? AND even if they build more to the North, only a fraction fo the bridge would be blocked. If you are claiming that the Manhattan views may be blocked, then the city would have to reclaim land and build in front, which I doubt would happen.
i like the way the concept.. i havent looked recently, but it seemed like the outer wall hasnt been put up yet.. id give it another 3-6mos before you get something approaching 5sl's level of completion. havent heard about a sales office, but chances are, it'll be located in one of the ec buildings. proximity to manhattan is one of the biggest selling pts for lic developments.. there's hardly anything directly north of ec3.. and 7 blocks in queens is not 7 blocks in manhattan. the 5min ride to GC quickly becomes a 20min journey, minimum. 99% of manhattan south of 125th st is less than 7 blocks away from a subway, and definitely less than 3 blocks from any bus stop.. if you consider that, there arent really any comps in manhattan. i dont agree with dco about a lot, but i think ec3 will have major trouble selling in this economy.
LICComment-I guess your right. I'm sorry for making people feel like they made a mistake buying in the last year. That's was not my intention. If people love the place they have in a great and safe area and have no plans on leaving in the next several years then my analysis shouldn't matter. If it does I'm sorry for making anybody feel buyers remorse.
I do like LIC but I think it is over priced in this market. Perhaps if things were still selling over night $800-1000 would be a fair price. Things have changed and perhaps those who were priced out of the insanity of the last several years could get in the game in the next year or two. Or perhaps it's a good time to get a larger unit. That's all.
For the record I grew up in a neighborhood next to LIC and am very familiar with the area and the amenities then and now. That's why I say it has potential but the price's diminish your return for the future. I also own a home so I have no vested interest in talking down the market. I just don't like what I see on the horizon.
belugaw- We can argue about a lot of things including the amenities of the area. But the one thing that is fact if the distance to the train from EC3. If it doesn't matter then it's not relevant, but if you want to be close to the train there are better options.
Thanks for the comments everyone. I do agree with dco on some of the points (the gym, parking, and the distance from the subway-- which I might add, feels the equivlaent of walking from 1st Ave to Lexington). Still, given the views of Manhattan and the fact that it is waterfront property, shouldn't it be something that would be hard pressed to lose its value?
Also, I saw a comment left by someone on Curbed that said the land was actually a land-lease and that the developers didn't purhcase it outright. That certainly seemed strange...
I am one of the people that believes LIC is a great place.
I agree that $1,000psf in this market may not be easy.
If you are looking to buy (and this is not a comment about whether or not now is a good time to buy) then I would recomend LIC for its value. with that said, this is certainly not a market for investment buyers.
My view on LIC is:
want a view: "The Vie"w will undoubtedly have the best gyaranteed views in LIC or maybe even the city for that matter (aside rfom citylights but that building has issues of its own)
Want proximity to Manhattan and local stores: look at to the area developeing where vernon intersect with jackson.
it is all depends on what you are looking for. If the most important thing to someone is a great view in the city then The View has a lot to offer.
i could be wrong, but i think the mechanics around leased land is the reason why the maintenance is so high at citylights and BPC (ie., ~$2/sqft). if thats the case at EC3, the discount to manhattan evaporates.
i believe that citylights has such high maintenance becasue of the building's financing; less to do with the land lease. The land lease terms for the waterfront developers was very much pro-development.
I think that the deal with The View is that the land was basically given away in exchange for development. I don't know what the current payments are but the building supposedly will have the option to buy the land for $1 or somethign crazy like that in 10 years.
I found the info - the deal with the land lease and common charges (as they pertain to the lease) are as follows:
At the end of 19 years, the building, on a land lease, has the option to buy the land for $1.
Common charges come in at an average of 79 cents per square foot monthly.
EC3 has opeed the sales office 'for friends and family' 2 weeks ago... from what i hear, there's a lot of interst... avg price around 1100/sf...
my 2 cents of some points.... (btw i live in EC1 so don't tell me I don't know the area...):
- about the no supermarket and Amish & DuaneReade opening soon : EC3 won't close until early 09... Amish and DuaneReade and plenty more will be way done by then... end of discussion.... it's totally idiotic to look at what's here right this second when owners will move in 9 months...
- about being far from the subway : I walk exactly 6 minutes to get to the subway... if you think that's too much, move to park avenue and get yourself a chauffeur... come on people... since when do newyorkers not walk???
- about the "I wouldn't want my wife walking home late from the train" : do you even live here? the 7station to EC walk is SUPER safe... I wouldn't say the same about the walk from the E station at Ely st... butfrom the 7, I let my wife walk home without worry...
- about the gym : the facilities in EC2 are great, and having the gym offsite lowers the common charges... I think it's actually a great point because you spread the operating costs on EC3's 180 units EC2 400orSo units paying members from EC1... and in all honestly, it's never crowded...
- about parking : all the new condos around have either valet parking like EC2 or very limited (read horribly expensive) onsite spots... for example 1 hunters point won't even sell a spot if you don't buy a 2 br unit... and then you need to pay an extra 75k for the spot... and if you wanna drive to work every day, move further out where you can get more space for your money...
that's it for my 2 (100) cents... :-)
oh... and maintenance is indeed 79cts/sf, tax plan is a bit over 1ct/sf/month (yes) so 15$/month for a 1200sf 2br... that stays for 14 yrs then goes up to market rate over 5 yrs....
marcec1- Welcome to the discussion. Do you plan on buying at this building? I respect your comments and I'm very familiar with the area as well. I understand that it takes you 6 minutes to walk, that's great but how many blocks is it to the train? I'm glad the 2 stores are coming to the area it will be a big plus. You can rationalize the gym and parking issue all you want and perhaps you actually believe it, but for these price's I don't want to have to leave the building in the middle of the winter to go to either the gym or the parking garage.
Now the positives. I think the views are great, that's not even debatable. The building looks great and the neighborhood does have potential. I wish everybody who buys there the best and I'm sure they will love the building.
If I had to buy in LIC I would probably go with the Powerhouse. The price's are starting to fall and the location to the train is good. If the view is not as important then the Powerhouse has the most to offer.
I would advise anyone before buying at EC3 to do a rent vs buy comparison with EC1 or EC2. You might find out that it is much cheaper to rent in the building that actually has all the amenities then buy at these price's. Just a realistic option.
dco -
> Do you plan on buying at this building?
not sure yet...
>I understand that it takes you 6 minutes to walk, that's great but how many blocks is it to the train?
it does not matter weather it's 4 or 10 blocks, it still takes me 6 minutes... but if you really want to count, 47 ave & center blvd to 50th & veron is 3 blocks south and 2 blocks east...
>You can rationalize the gym and parking issue all you want and perhaps you actually believe it, but for these price's I don't want to have to leave the building in the middle of the winter to go to either the gym or the parking garage.
I don't own a car and I don't go to the gym that much... so to me it makes perfect sense...
>If I had to buy in LIC I would probably go with the Powerhouse. The price's are starting to fall and the location to the train is good. If the view is not as important then the Powerhouse has the most to offer.
The problem with powerhouse is that they ask 1,150,000 for a good 2br (#1003), with a view that's going to vanish as soon as hunters point south's first building will go up (about 1 year from now)... for the same price you get #408 in EC3, same sqft but un-obstructible view... and for the record, I love the powerhouse...I just can't reconcile with spending over a mil for an apartment that's going to end up with no view left in a few years...
>I would advise anyone before buying at EC3 to do a rent vs buy comparison with EC1 or EC2. You might find out that it is much cheaper to rent in the building that actually has all the amenities then buy at these price's. Just a realistic option.
I think personally that it's smarter to put a bit more money every month towards building equity, rather that throw rent money out the window...
marcec1- Very good post. And I thank you for answering the question. I agree 100% that I wouldn't by a 1M unit with views that were going to disappear. However I was referring to any other unit minus the view price tag.
With everything said EC3 is going to be a great test for the area and the state of the market. I'll venture to guess that it will sell 30-40 units rather quickly and things will slow. Most of the 1 beds will go much faster than the 2 Beds.
The View at East Coast
Drove by this place over the weekend. The building looks like its almost built! Also, I heard the sales office is supposed to be open but I haven't found it.
Any word on this new development?
The building looks great, however I have several issues.
1. Suppose to be starting at over $1000 sq foot. ( in this market good luck, at $700 possible)
2. No on site parking (the garage is located across the street in their rental building)
3. NO gym in the building. (also located in the rental building across the street)
4. It's at least 7 blocks to the nearest train.
5. No grocery stores in the area ( market is coming soooooooooooon.)
6. Very little restaurants or bars.
7. Other buildings going up for the next 5 years. (it's one big costruction zone).
In all this building is going to have great views but at what cost. Not much to do in the area. Well good luck. Hope this helps.
Now wait and see others tell you how great the area and building is and how it is a great deal. And to tell you the truth I think the area has potential, just not these price's.
I'm so happy that the other commenters on this blog see the type of joke that dco is.
Let's see - waterfront property, luxury building, great amenities, midtown Manhattan views, 5 minute train ride to Grand Central, 20-30% cheaper than comparable buildings in Manhattan (assuming $900-$1000 psf, pricing hasn't come out yet but word is that prices will begin at under $1000psf), up and coming area with other luxury condos and lots of retail amenities opening every week - dco is right, this is terrible.
LICComments- Is all that I posted not true. I'll concede that no one knows for sure about the price. But is anything else I said a LIE.
So you answer the questions.
1. Where is the gym going to be located?
2. Where is the parking going to be located?
3. How many blocks is it to the Vernon Jackson station on the 7 Line.
4. Where is the nearest grocery store. (not in the future)
5. Is the entire waterfront area a construction zone? And will be for the next 5 years?
Tell me how I lied. I said the area does have potential and the building will offer great views.
I didn't say you lied, I said that your comments are a joke.
I don't know all the details of the building, but from what I hear:
1. The building will have a small gym and owners have access to a full gym in the building next to this one.
2. Parking across the street - so what? Many Manhattanites with cars don't park in the same building they live. This won't affect sales.
3. The walk to the subway hasn't stopped $3k and $4k+ rentals at the building right next to this one.
4. For anyone that moves into this building, there will be an Amish Market (same owners, may be a different name) and Duane Reade across the street.
5. New buildings will be going up north of this building, but not right next to it. Everything west is already developed, and there is one site south that will be getting a library building. There isn't any other construction directly around this building.
You conveniently didn't raise your #6 point, which is an out and out misstatement. There are many great bars and restaurants right nearby. Off the top of my head - Riverview, Masso, Cafe Henri, Lounge 47, Blend, Bella Via, Tournesol, Tuk Tuk, Lucky Mojos, Waterfront Crabhouse. Also right nearby in the area - Jackson Avenue Steakhouse, Manetta's, Manducatis, Water's Edge, on and on. There also will be a high-end Asian fusion restaurant either in the building or across the street. Bars - Beside the bars in the restaurants, there are Domaine Wine Bar, Dominies Hoek, McReilly's, Water Taxi Beach, on and on. Keep trying dco, eventually you'll say something substantively correct.
Quick correction - I meant to say everything directly east is already developed.
LICComent- At least you admitted that I'm more knowledgable about this building then you are.
1. Again the Amish market is not there yet. How about a regular supermarket?
2. Some of those rest. you mentioned are a $10 cab ride further in to Queens because you don't think people should have cars.
3. What does possible small gym mean? Maybe possibly not?
4. The fact that the rental is closer means that EC3 is further ( still 7 blocks)
5. New buildings will be going up to the north.These building will block the nothern views of 59 Bridge.
Actually you have made me think about one thing. Your better off renting in the building with all the amenities and being closer to the train.
dco - why is your rediculous comments everywhere in streeteasy? I have read many forums and everyone tells you how much nonesense you post. It's been very obvious to me that you will continue to do so, so I hope for everyone who reads ANYONE's comment that you do the research on your own and can use the comments as a starting point or guideline.
Please dco...you know what you are about and if anyone just reads any forums with your comments, I think they will realize in a short period of time that you are an absolute joke. You must really get some sick sense of pleasure posting your comments...quiet sad.
belugaw- If anything I posted above is a lie then point it out. Just because I have a difference in opinion about the market doesn't give the right to make stupid and pointless statements. The market is going to decline and there is nothing you or I can do about it. To think that comments on this site have the ability to sway the market is as ridiculous as your statements.
dco - you said there are very little restaurants or bars in the area - that was a complete misstatement.
You said there will be no gym in the building, when there may be a small gym. You really don't have a clue if there will be any type of gym or not.
You said there are no grocery stores in the area. Even if we don't count the Amish Market that will be open well before this building opens, Vernon Boulevard has at least 4 groceries/delis right where this building is located.
Your "construction zone" statement is also misinformation.
I think dco is envious of the large number of people in the NYC area who make more money than he does, so he goes into denial by believing that everything is overpriced and the market will crash down to his level.
LICComment- I'm envious of people who make more then me. I would love to make more money wouldn't you? What kind of a statement is that. The stores on Vernon are Bodegas. Do you know the difference?
LICComment I will tell you that you have a lot of heart. You have defended LIC with great honor. Let me be clear I think LIC does have potential. I guess we differ on the progress of the neighborhood and the value of the units. I just think the area is overpriced just like the rest of the city. And I truly wouldn't buy in EC3. What bothers me besides the price is all the amenities are in another building. And yes the walk to the train is far. I wouldn't want my wife walking home late from the train.
dco - let's talk straight for a second. Much of your problem has to do with the attitude that comes through your comments. If you had said: "This building is in an incredible location with great views, and is good quality, but I personally don't like that the gym is in another building and I would prefer something closer to the train, and I think prices are a little high for this area in this market right now" - I think everyone would respect that. But you come out, disparage this building and practically insult everyone who has bought an apartment recently by saying they should have waited because their investment are about to plummet, and come across very obnoxious. The fact is, there are a lot of people who find the prices to be affordable and like what this building has to offer. Some people will love it and others won't. As for the general market, for all your arguments that things will drop, there are good arguments for why prices won't drop. Try to be a little more tempered and reasonable with your views and comments.
As for money, I'm happy with my job and my life. Making more would be nice, but I'm not envious of anyone.
Interesting comment about bodegas - you should be careful where you go with that one. Actually, if you consider Mario's Deli a bodega, that's fine with me, I still think it's great.
dco - If anything I posted above is a lie then point it out:
Again the Amish market is not there yet. How about a regular supermarket? - Amish market will be there and it is confirmed. It's also going to be a very large Amish Market, more than 10,000 sq ft. When you ask how about a regular supermarket - would you consider Whole Foods not a regular supermarket? Have you even shopped at Amish Market to make that comment? I shop for groceries at the Amish Market on 9th Avenue and find everything that I need...so stop speaking out of your ass.
2. Some of those rest. you mentioned are a $10 cab ride further in to Queens because you don't think people should have cars - when was the last time you were in LIC? There are so many restaurants around the waterfront and on Vernon, within walking distance...the area is not desolate of restaurants that's for sure.
3. What does possible small gym mean? Maybe possibly not? - And possibly so! What kind of stupid comment is that??
4. The fact that the rental is closer means that EC3 is further ( still 7 blocks)- There are many Rockrose rentals there...I have been there and it is not a far walk from the subway at all.
5. New buildings will be going up to the north.These building will block the nothern views of 59 Bridge - did you forget about the entire view of the Eastside of Manhattan that is directly in front of this building? AND even if they build more to the North, only a fraction fo the bridge would be blocked. If you are claiming that the Manhattan views may be blocked, then the city would have to reclaim land and build in front, which I doubt would happen.
So, your comments are not factual!
i like the way the concept.. i havent looked recently, but it seemed like the outer wall hasnt been put up yet.. id give it another 3-6mos before you get something approaching 5sl's level of completion. havent heard about a sales office, but chances are, it'll be located in one of the ec buildings. proximity to manhattan is one of the biggest selling pts for lic developments.. there's hardly anything directly north of ec3.. and 7 blocks in queens is not 7 blocks in manhattan. the 5min ride to GC quickly becomes a 20min journey, minimum. 99% of manhattan south of 125th st is less than 7 blocks away from a subway, and definitely less than 3 blocks from any bus stop.. if you consider that, there arent really any comps in manhattan. i dont agree with dco about a lot, but i think ec3 will have major trouble selling in this economy.
LICComment-I guess your right. I'm sorry for making people feel like they made a mistake buying in the last year. That's was not my intention. If people love the place they have in a great and safe area and have no plans on leaving in the next several years then my analysis shouldn't matter. If it does I'm sorry for making anybody feel buyers remorse.
I do like LIC but I think it is over priced in this market. Perhaps if things were still selling over night $800-1000 would be a fair price. Things have changed and perhaps those who were priced out of the insanity of the last several years could get in the game in the next year or two. Or perhaps it's a good time to get a larger unit. That's all.
For the record I grew up in a neighborhood next to LIC and am very familiar with the area and the amenities then and now. That's why I say it has potential but the price's diminish your return for the future. I also own a home so I have no vested interest in talking down the market. I just don't like what I see on the horizon.
belugaw- We can argue about a lot of things including the amenities of the area. But the one thing that is fact if the distance to the train from EC3. If it doesn't matter then it's not relevant, but if you want to be close to the train there are better options.
Thanks for the comments everyone. I do agree with dco on some of the points (the gym, parking, and the distance from the subway-- which I might add, feels the equivlaent of walking from 1st Ave to Lexington). Still, given the views of Manhattan and the fact that it is waterfront property, shouldn't it be something that would be hard pressed to lose its value?
Also, I saw a comment left by someone on Curbed that said the land was actually a land-lease and that the developers didn't purhcase it outright. That certainly seemed strange...
I am one of the people that believes LIC is a great place.
I agree that $1,000psf in this market may not be easy.
If you are looking to buy (and this is not a comment about whether or not now is a good time to buy) then I would recomend LIC for its value. with that said, this is certainly not a market for investment buyers.
My view on LIC is:
want a view: "The Vie"w will undoubtedly have the best gyaranteed views in LIC or maybe even the city for that matter (aside rfom citylights but that building has issues of its own)
Want proximity to Manhattan and local stores: look at to the area developeing where vernon intersect with jackson.
it is all depends on what you are looking for. If the most important thing to someone is a great view in the city then The View has a lot to offer.
lobo and NYbyler- very well said.
i could be wrong, but i think the mechanics around leased land is the reason why the maintenance is so high at citylights and BPC (ie., ~$2/sqft). if thats the case at EC3, the discount to manhattan evaporates.
i believe that citylights has such high maintenance becasue of the building's financing; less to do with the land lease. The land lease terms for the waterfront developers was very much pro-development.
I think that the deal with The View is that the land was basically given away in exchange for development. I don't know what the current payments are but the building supposedly will have the option to buy the land for $1 or somethign crazy like that in 10 years.
I found the info - the deal with the land lease and common charges (as they pertain to the lease) are as follows:
At the end of 19 years, the building, on a land lease, has the option to buy the land for $1.
Common charges come in at an average of 79 cents per square foot monthly.
EC3 has opeed the sales office 'for friends and family' 2 weeks ago... from what i hear, there's a lot of interst... avg price around 1100/sf...
my 2 cents of some points.... (btw i live in EC1 so don't tell me I don't know the area...):
- about the no supermarket and Amish & DuaneReade opening soon : EC3 won't close until early 09... Amish and DuaneReade and plenty more will be way done by then... end of discussion.... it's totally idiotic to look at what's here right this second when owners will move in 9 months...
- about being far from the subway : I walk exactly 6 minutes to get to the subway... if you think that's too much, move to park avenue and get yourself a chauffeur... come on people... since when do newyorkers not walk???
- about the "I wouldn't want my wife walking home late from the train" : do you even live here? the 7station to EC walk is SUPER safe... I wouldn't say the same about the walk from the E station at Ely st... butfrom the 7, I let my wife walk home without worry...
- about the gym : the facilities in EC2 are great, and having the gym offsite lowers the common charges... I think it's actually a great point because you spread the operating costs on EC3's 180 units EC2 400orSo units paying members from EC1... and in all honestly, it's never crowded...
- about parking : all the new condos around have either valet parking like EC2 or very limited (read horribly expensive) onsite spots... for example 1 hunters point won't even sell a spot if you don't buy a 2 br unit... and then you need to pay an extra 75k for the spot... and if you wanna drive to work every day, move further out where you can get more space for your money...
that's it for my 2 (100) cents... :-)
oh... and maintenance is indeed 79cts/sf, tax plan is a bit over 1ct/sf/month (yes) so 15$/month for a 1200sf 2br... that stays for 14 yrs then goes up to market rate over 5 yrs....
marcec1- Welcome to the discussion. Do you plan on buying at this building? I respect your comments and I'm very familiar with the area as well. I understand that it takes you 6 minutes to walk, that's great but how many blocks is it to the train? I'm glad the 2 stores are coming to the area it will be a big plus. You can rationalize the gym and parking issue all you want and perhaps you actually believe it, but for these price's I don't want to have to leave the building in the middle of the winter to go to either the gym or the parking garage.
Now the positives. I think the views are great, that's not even debatable. The building looks great and the neighborhood does have potential. I wish everybody who buys there the best and I'm sure they will love the building.
If I had to buy in LIC I would probably go with the Powerhouse. The price's are starting to fall and the location to the train is good. If the view is not as important then the Powerhouse has the most to offer.
I would advise anyone before buying at EC3 to do a rent vs buy comparison with EC1 or EC2. You might find out that it is much cheaper to rent in the building that actually has all the amenities then buy at these price's. Just a realistic option.
dco -
> Do you plan on buying at this building?
not sure yet...
>I understand that it takes you 6 minutes to walk, that's great but how many blocks is it to the train?
it does not matter weather it's 4 or 10 blocks, it still takes me 6 minutes... but if you really want to count, 47 ave & center blvd to 50th & veron is 3 blocks south and 2 blocks east...
>You can rationalize the gym and parking issue all you want and perhaps you actually believe it, but for these price's I don't want to have to leave the building in the middle of the winter to go to either the gym or the parking garage.
I don't own a car and I don't go to the gym that much... so to me it makes perfect sense...
>If I had to buy in LIC I would probably go with the Powerhouse. The price's are starting to fall and the location to the train is good. If the view is not as important then the Powerhouse has the most to offer.
The problem with powerhouse is that they ask 1,150,000 for a good 2br (#1003), with a view that's going to vanish as soon as hunters point south's first building will go up (about 1 year from now)... for the same price you get #408 in EC3, same sqft but un-obstructible view... and for the record, I love the powerhouse...I just can't reconcile with spending over a mil for an apartment that's going to end up with no view left in a few years...
>I would advise anyone before buying at EC3 to do a rent vs buy comparison with EC1 or EC2. You might find out that it is much cheaper to rent in the building that actually has all the amenities then buy at these price's. Just a realistic option.
I think personally that it's smarter to put a bit more money every month towards building equity, rather that throw rent money out the window...
marcec1- Very good post. And I thank you for answering the question. I agree 100% that I wouldn't by a 1M unit with views that were going to disappear. However I was referring to any other unit minus the view price tag.
With everything said EC3 is going to be a great test for the area and the state of the market. I'll venture to guess that it will sell 30-40 units rather quickly and things will slow. Most of the 1 beds will go much faster than the 2 Beds.