Obama Payroll Tax Redux

Recent poll shows McCain with 9pt lead over Obama and spreading further daily.
Obama is counting on young voters to win the election...much like Scarlet Johanson, who doesn't know the difference between Dem and Rep.

Yeah and maybe Cindy Mccain will give some money to her sister who lives in America with her children who are suffering since she cut them off to ZERO after her $100 million dollar father died. She also calls herself an only child but has a sister?

Your post is so partisan and so uniformed.

Summary
McCain released three new ads with multiple false and misleading claims about Obama's tax proposals.

A TV spot claims Obama once voted for a tax increase "on people making just $42,000 a year." That's true for a single taxpayer, who would have seen a tax increase of $15 for the year – if the measure had been enacted. But the ad shows a woman with two children, and as a single mother, she would not have been affected unless she made more than $62,150. The increase that Obama once supported as part of a Democratic budget bill is not part of his current tax plan anyway.

A Spanish-language radio ad claims the measure Obama supported would have raised taxes on "families" making $42,000, which is simply false. Even a single mother with one child would have been able to make $58,650 without being affected. A family of four with income up to $90,000 would not have been affected.

The TV ad claims in a graphic that Obama would "raise taxes on middle class." In fact, Obama's plan promises cuts for middle-income taxpayers and would increase rates only for persons with family incomes above $250,000 or with individual incomes above $200,000.

The radio ad claims Obama would increase taxes "on the sale of your home." In fact, home-sale profits of up to $500,000 per couple would continue to be exempt from capital gains taxes. Very few sales would see an increase under Obama's proposal to raise the capital gains rate.

A second radio ad, in English, says, "Obama has a history of raising taxes" on middle-class Americans. But that's false. It refers to a vote that did not actually result in a tax increase and could not have done so.

These ads continue what's become a pattern of misrepresentation by the McCain campaign about his opponent's tax proposals.

Analysis
Sen. John McCain's campaign released the 30-second spot Aug. 8. Campaign spokesman Brian Rogers said the ad would be running in Colorado, Iowa, Michigan, Missouri, Nevada, New Hampshire, New Mexico, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Virginia and Wisconsin.

guy you get your points from factcheck.org just like the rest of us. it swings both ways.

still beats a buck a month. then he writes in his book that he's a "beautiful boy with a rounded head". the guy says he saw obama twice in his life and the guy acted like he was king shit. when you use your poor african heritage as a brownie point, shit like this has a way to come back to kick you in the ass.

Here's how the average tax bill could change in 2009 if either John McCain's or Barack Obama's tax proposals were fully in place.
MCCAIN OBAMA
Income Avg.tax bill Avg. tax bill
Over $2.9M -$269,364 +$701,885
$603K and up -$45,361 +$115,974
$227K-$603K -$7,871 +$12
$161K-$227K -$4,380 -$2,789
$112K-$161K -$2,614 -$2,204
$66K-$112K -$1,009 -$1,290
$38K-$66K -$319 -$1,042
$19K-$38K -$113 -$892
Under $19K -$19 -$567

Actualy for everyone making under $227K per year - which is about 85% of the country Obama gives a bigger tax decreaase than McCain.

i have no problem paying slighlty higher taxes to support our wars and no stick my children and your children with a bill for our excesses.

McCain offers empty promises of tax cuts and balanced budgets. In the end he will try to put through a minimal tax cut, which will balloon the deficit nearly bankrupt the country, hurt the funding for our wars and stick future generations with debt that they didnt incur.

Yeah that is moral.

Limousine liberal....

Do those statistics include the refundable tax credits included in the Obama plan?

TA - what is your position on McCain cheating on and dumping his first crippled wife? His assisting Keating fleece Americans out of their hard earned money in the S&L scandels? His cheating on his current wife with a lobbyist? Him having 54 lobbyists on his payroll?

His bashing the pork roll DNA study of bears in montana pork roll project that he himself voted in favor of?

His flip flop on off shore drilling? etc etc etc

So The Fed - you are OK with irresponsible tax cuts that leave tax burden to your kids? You are also OK with cutting taxes in a time of war and in turn jeopardizing our troops ability to fight and win our wars on terror?

Please explain.

Petrfitz,
What would you say about Mrs. Obama calling caucasians "Whitey"?

r

it didnt happen - its a lie. please provide proof.

ba how do you feel about Phil Gramm calling America a "nation of Whiners" and calling our economy a mental recession?

petrfitz, you grossly misrepresent John Dubya McCain's relationship with his first wife. She still adores him. See http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1024927/The-wife-John-McCain-callously-left-behind.html for the story of a real hero and his wives.

ba294, is Mrs. Obama allowed to say things like "Whitey Ford" and "Whitey Herzog" or is that unladylike? Just curious.

or BA how about McCains repeated and disproven lies about Obama's tax plan and position? IS it OK that he is running on lies?

What about McCain using songs from John Mellancamp and Jackson Brown without their permission in his campaign essentially stealing money from them and inferring that they support him when they do not?

what about McCain lying about his "Cross in the Sand" story where he stole the story from a book and made it his own life?

Maybe Obama can give some money to his brother who lives in a hut!!! The polls are now moving towards McCain. It's over for obama.

wow petrfitz you sound like you know John McCain better than he knows himself.
I like your " IS it OK that he is running on lies?" comment.
Cuz you know, the Obamaessiah has NEVER ever told a lie before.

Obamaessiah...never heard that. That's a classic. thanks.

The fat lady has started to sing. The game is over for Obama.

I have always believed, and as the election draws near, the racial overtones will come into play and Obama has no chance. All the black vote is already committed to Obama and decision rest with the 'whiteys'. So you figure that one out.

All I can say is Democrats sure can figure out a way to lose even in a winning situation. They are their worst enemy.

My apologies to all democrats who got offended, including myself.

"So The Fed - you are OK with irresponsible tax cuts that leave tax burden to your kids? You are also OK with cutting taxes in a time of war and in turn jeopardizing our troops ability to fight and win our wars on terror?"

I agree that is irresponsible, but that is almost irrelevant since I wasn't calling Obama a limousine liberal I was calling YOU a limousine liberal. You come across as quite leftist (this thread) 99% of the time until your true colors are revealed as you open your mouth about the NY RE market. All of a sudden you pull a 180. If you were as truly a bleeding heart liberal as you seem to be shouldn't you be out helping push for stronger rent controls, more public housing and the like??

Bottom Line is this:

"If we kept the payroll tax rate exactly the same but applied it to all earnings and not just the first $97,500, we could virtually eliminate the entire Social Security shortfall."

B.H. Obama, 9/21/07.

Petrofitz. Quick question. Are you even eligible to vote in this country?

TA, I think the Dalai-bama left out a few small details in that quote from 9/21/07, like the part about how we would also abandon the parity between contributions and withdrawls, thus making Social Security an entitlement program, not a retirement income trust.

petrofitz, with all the tax savings I'll get from Barack's plan (which will as per your concocted numbers somehow magically only increase my tax burden by $12 despite the elimination of the SS Cap and/or "doughnut" and concomitant increase in marginal tax rates), I think that "rich" guys like me should invest in Michele/Barack "Fistbump" Refrigerator Magnets as seen on the below link. They are certain to increase in value much in the same way those neat Kerry/Edwards trinkets have.

http://store.barackobama.com/product_p/mg29541.htm

wow scary how racist a site devoted to real estate can get. any excuse huh? unreal.

I agree. Any challenge to the tax policy of a candidate who happens to be half black is of course by definition racist.

"when you use your poor african heritage as a brownie point, shit like this has a way to come back to kick you in the ass."

"What would you say about Mrs. Obama calling caucasians "Whitey"?"

"Maybe Obama can give some money to his brother who lives in a hut!!!"

"I have always believed, and as the election draws near, the racial overtones will come into play and Obama has no chance. All the black vote is already committed to Obama and decision rest with the 'whiteys'. So you figure that one out."

Oh yes, clearly I misread. Perpetuating a LIE about a racial slur used by his wife and derogatory comments about his African heritage have EVERYTHING to do with his tax policy. Mighty brave behind the anonymity of a computer aren't we?

The only comment I made was your #1 and I stand by it. Moreover, I am a "minority". Were you and your Obama Zombie friendlies for one minute to stop and actually dissect what this guy actually believes rather than mindlessly follow him out of some sense of twisted justice and/or guilt, you'd see the damage this person will cause.

Either that or use the power of basic reading comprehension might serve you well, Knowledge is a good thing.

Oh I see. I used the word "brownie" in the same sentence as an Obama criticism. I therefore must be a racist.

I really don't care what you are, ignorant ... and maybe blowhart are only adjectives that apply here.

"Were you and your Obama Zombie friendlies for one minute to stop and actually dissect what this guy actually believes..."

"Either that or use the power of basic reading comprehension might serve you well"

Um, say what? Do we really wanna call out someone's inability to read and write here?

I'm really not the one to get in a sparring match with buddy. Line up the facts behind your argument instead of resorting to childish drivel to PERHAPS try to get an intelligent debate going about a subject relevant to this board.

Sen. Obama is too inexperienced, insincere, and inadequate for the Presidency. He lies about FISA, Public Financing, his upbringing, and his religion. He said he would raise the payroll tax by eliminating the cutoff. This would be a 15% effective tax increase. He said he would raise capital gains to 28%. Sen. Obama believes in redistributing wealth. In true socialist fashion, he would let the bureaucrats have the power that capitalists have in our economy. He is unelectable on so many levels. The one issue that we should really look to at this stage is protecting home ownership by allowing all Adjustable rate loans to be rolled into fixed rate loans immediately. Fannie and Freddie are bankrupted and we can be on the hook for 2 trillion. If we allow refinancing for the next 3 years, we can at least create a floor for real estate. We need to protect our asset values for the average homeowner.

Patrick_Bateman: You are a vile piece of excrement who no one should mistake as a real human being. The fact that you're id is that of a fictional serial killer tells me all I need to know about you. The unfortunate thing about this site is that cowards such as yourself are emboldened by the annonymous nature of this sites to post absolutely heinous comments

please go back to the rock from whence you came, do not purport to speak for anyone who would vote for McCain over Obama.

I happen to supervise a bunch of shiftless white guys who if they had their druthers would spend all their time researching their fantasy football picks and staring at porno queens on the internet. they are all expecting to become MDs without doing any work or making the firm any money. I think a few of them are still waiting to find WMDs in Iraq. Unlike you I know that this subset is just that a mere subset of people.

Please tell me the name of the company stupid enough to give you supervisory control of anyone...I would like to short them immediately.

By the way...When will deomcrats learn that constantly wanting to tax the "wealthy" is a losing strategy. This is a country filled with people who want to become wealthy...the american people do not want to tax whay they themselves hope to become.

Petrefitz or whatever you call yourself, if you had half a brain you would know that tax cuts did not create the morass we are currently in...it is out of control spending/loaning that has caused these problems...The american people intuitively know that as well, which is why Obama is having real problems. Everyone knows that even if our economy were doing well...Obama would still propose huge tax increases. Class warfare in the US will always be a losing political strategy

Personally, I thought the only chance would be if he chose Hillary as a running mate...he didn't so now all white women will vote for McCain in my opinion.

I have no idea what Joe Biden gets him...great he wins Delaware

Straight out of the Obama playbook: First attack opponent as racist, then attack opponent as a liar. Then see which one sticks.

"Line up the facts behind your argument"

How's this. When was Obama lying about his policy toward the elimination of the cap on social security witholding taxes, on 9/21/07 or now?

^Racist!

/

Hey the solution to the politicial party who's policies have devastated our country back to Great Depression era standards is to elect that same party with the same policies to fix the disaster that they created.

4 more years of Bush tax policies. 4 more years of Bush economic stewardship. 4 more years of divisive name calling and dividing of the country! 4 more unfunded wars!

John McSame - married his way to success!

divisive name calling? talk about the pot calling the kettle black

Petrfitz:

so you now admit that the housing market is now in the throes of a depression. I thought the media was overexagerrating the current state of the economy

Which one is it, when you want to btag about what a genius real estate genius you are you indicate that the housing market is fine. When you want to elect Bush you indicate that we are in the throes of a depression.

You really are a clown

flmd - i am not sure if what you wrote was actually english. Also you dont understand sarcasm.

Real estate in many areas is as bad off as it was during the Depression but not in all markets. NYC prime real estate has done well despite the disasterous and irresponsible economic policies of the Republican administration. Why is that? Because the Republican policies hand every possible advantage to the wealthy and screw the poor. Manhattan is a bastion of the wealthy and the mid west is not. Hence the difference in the markets.

Hey I am rich, Republicans keep handing me your money. I get huge tax breaks handed to me - hundred s of thousands of dollars of you middle class americans money.

Keep voting Republican, they will keep giving me your money. I will continue to get richer.

I just dont see it as fair or moral but if you clowns keep voting for Republicans, I will keep taking your money.

Subject: A TAX STORY OVER A FEW BEERS....
A LITTLE REFRESHER COURSE ECONOMICS 101

Suppose that every day, ten men go out for beer and
the bill for all ten comes to $100. If they paid their
bill the way we pay our taxes, it would go something
like this:

The first four men (the poorest) would pay
nothing.
The fifth would pay $1.
The sixth would pay $3.
The seventh would pay $7.
The eighth would pay $12.
The ninth would pay $18.
The tenth man (the richest) would pay $59.

So, that's what they decided to do.

The ten men drank in the bar every day and seemed
quite happy with the arrangement, until one day, the
owner threw them a curve. "Since you are all such good
customers," he said, "I'm going to reduce the cost of
your daily beer by $20." Drinks for the ten now cost
just $80.

The group still wanted to pay their bill the way we
pay our taxes so the first four men were unaffected.
They would still drink for free. But what about the
other six men - the paying customers? How could they
divide the $20 windfall so that everyone would get his
'fair share?'

They realized that $20 divided by six is $3.33. But if
they subtracted that from everyone's share, then the
fifth man and the sixth man would each end up being
paid to drink his beer. So, the bar owner suggested
that it would be fair to reduce each man's bill by
roughly the same amount, and he proceeded to work out
the amounts each should pay.

And so:

The fifth man, like the first four, now paid nothing (100% savings).

The sixth now paid $2 instead of $3 (33%savings).

The seventh now pay $5 instead of $7 (28%savings).

The eighth now paid $9 instead of $12 (25% savings).

The ninth now paid $14 instead of $18 (22% savings).

The tenth now paid $49 instead of $59 (16%savings).

Each of the six was better off than before. And the
first four continued to drink for free. But once
outside the restaurant, the men began to compare their
savings.

"I only got a dollar out of the $20," declared the
sixth man. He pointed to the tenth man, "but he got
$10!"

"Yeah, that's right," exclaimed the fifth man. "I only
saved a dollar, too. It's unfair that he got ten times
more than I did!"

"That's true!!" shouted the seventh man. "Why should
he get $10 back when I got only two? The wealthy get
all the breaks!"

"Wait a minute," yelled the first four men in unison.
"We didn't get anything at all. The system exploits
the poor!"

The nine men surrounded the tenth and beat him up.

The next night the tenth man didn't show up for
drinks, so the nine sat down and had beers without
him. But when it came time to pay the bill, they
discovered something important. They didn't have
enough money between all of them for even half of the
bill!

And that, ladies and gentlemen, journalists and
college professors, is how our tax system works. The
people who pay the highest taxes get the most benefit
from a tax reduction. Tax them too much, attack them
for being wealthy, and they just may not show up
anymore. In fact, they might start drinking overseas
where the atmosphere is somewhat friendlier.

For those who understand... No explanation is needed.

For those who do not understand... No explanation is possible.

Petrfitz...I'm a Democrat but your personal attacks on John McCain have no place in politics. Remember Obama wants to change politics and you're the same old stale talking points.

Julia - those were facts about McCain that were direct responses to the obviously partisan republicans on this thread started throwing at Obama. the difference between my "attacks" on McCain and theirs on Obama? My are actually facts, theirs were lies.

Julia - you are a democrat?

"julia
5 days ago
"Maybe Obama can give some money to his brother who lives in a hut!!! The polls are now moving towards McCain. It's over for obama."

You sound like and have posted before like a card carrying closed minded talking points spewing Republican.

"My are actually facts, theirs were lies."

I cited Obama's own words on social security withholding taxes. So I guess you're right. I cited his lies.

petrfitz, if you love socialism so much, there are a few other countries out there where you can move. Americans like freedom, opportunity and democracy.
This whole liberal lie that McCain is the same as Bush is a pure hoax. Anyone who follows them can see the stark differences, and realizes that McCain would bring different polices to Washington.

that and he'll raise the marginal tax rate to 36% from 33% for marrieds making in excess of $150,000. Look it up Obama Zombie.

Add to that the increae in capital gains rate, almost doubling it, which he proposes. Again, the Obama playbook--First attack foes as racist, then as liars and see which one sticks.

Don't forget the payroll taxe rate

and the dividend tax rate....

TA - do you support irresponsible tax rates/cuts that leave huge deficits for future generations to pay? Or tax rates/cuts that cause America to continually borrow money from foregin nations like China and India and in turn place the country's financial security in the hands of foreign or comunist nations?

How does the government offer lower tax rates without hurting the security of our economy and military? You have never answered that question.

Also when did I ever cite you as racist? I think that you are incredibily ignorant and close minded but I never said racist.

any one have anymore to add? I'm sure there are more taxes he wants to raise somewhere....

love Romney, but can't wait to see McCain pick a women (Palin or Hutchinson) on Friday and the race will be over before it ever started...thanks Obama for giving us the opening we needed...Hillary was a slam dunk (as much as it pains me to say)

Four more years!

Ok seriously? Seriously? Your beloved Republicans signed us up for a war! Never in history have taxes been cut during a war because it's absolutely impossible. You got the war you wanted so now we have to pay for it somehow and yeah, that means taxes. Someone has to clean up this mess or we will continue to prostitute ourselves to China.

And boohoo, you make over 150K you should pay more.

And no one would have called anyone racist had his race and his background not been used in this thread by all the McCain groupies so you can't have it both ways. Don't accuse anyone of playing the race card when you brought it up to begin with.

"John McSame - married his way to success!"

Ummm, your last candidate did the same thing....twice. Guy, shouldn't you be in Denver with the other 9/11 conspiracy theorists?

I am a lifelong Democrat but I do keep my mind open to all views. I strongly believe Obama will make a great President. He's not perfect and there are flaws in his tax policies, etc. BUT, he will bring so much more to the table that it is impossible not to vote for him.

petrofitz, everything you have said is partisan but blame everyone else for being the partisan one
your claims are based on fact while others are based on lies?
you claim McCain is cheating on his current wife with a lobbyist. Only the NYTimes bought that BS story and is was very quickly discredited. You demand other people provide evidence for their claims yet you provide none for that one.
And for every "attack" you level against McCain (cheating on his first wife, phil graham, lobbyists, flip flopping etc) there are just as many for Obama (Ayers, Wright, Rezko, Acorn, public financing flipflop, Biden's son is a lobbyist) so you see they get us no where.

petr, are you that naive? The problem isn't tax cuts, the problem is too much government spending and too much big government. Putting income limits on medicare and pushing back Social Security benefits to age 70 (for those currently under age 50), and slashing pork barrel spending would make a huge difference in the deficit.

McCain would cut spending, reduce the tax burden, and finally institute policies reducing our energy dependence. Obama would make these things even worse. Did Republicans block a vote on oil drilling, or wasn't that Pelosi and the democrats?

"TA - do you support irresponsible tax rates/cuts that leave huge deficits for future generations to pay?"

Great way to skew a question guy. Let me ask you--Do you support irresponsible tax increases that leave an ever shrinking minority of Americans--higher income earners-- to pay an exponentially higher percentage of their incomes to the federal government than the vast majority of other Americans?

Do you think marrieds earning over $250,000 are "the wealthiest Americans"?

How about this, if the SS tax cap is lifted, why not lift insanely low caps on various income tax deductions like student loan interest (currently capped at 65,000 AGI), IRA contributions (capped at $25,000 AGI)and the like.

"And boohoo, you make over 150K you should pay more."

Hey, isn't that on a new Obama/Biden bumper sticker? It should be.

Petrfitz---While you're googling to come up with a response, keep chanting the mantra "Change You Can Believe In" and "Barack Obama is Right, John McCain is wrong". Its probably quite therapeutic for you.

A wise person once said that if you argue with a crazy person a casual onlooker wouldn't be able to tell the difference between the two of you.

Think what you wanna think and say as many deragatory things as you can to help you feel better about yourself. You clearly are never gone see out of your bubble to what the rest of the country is dealing with so hey, godspeed.

LIC says "McCain would cut spending, reduce the tax burden, and finally institute policies reducing our energy dependence" Hmm Bush said the same exact thing, he cut taxes, increased the long term tax burden for us all "exponentially", and didnt institute any energy independence policies. McCain voted in favor of Bush's actions 90% of the time. Empty talk backed up by the opposite action by Mccain. Hey vote for me because I am going to do the opposite of what i supported over the last 8 years.

TA - either you dont understand the term "exponential" or dont understand either candidates Tax propsals.

Also - i think that the "higher income earners" like myself should pay their fair share of taxes as we have been getting massive advantages over what the middle or lower class pay. I also want to pay my share and not leave the bill to your kids or my kids. Its immoral the debt burden we have racked up and not paid.

Do you plan to leave your kids massive credit card debt when you pass?

"You clearly are never gone see out of your bubble to what the rest of the country is dealing with so hey, godspeed."

Oh, you mean "flyover" country? Funny how NYC liberals look down their nose at the rest of the country and then feign sympathy for their plight for political purposes. Thank you Mother Teresa.

"their fair share of taxes"

Again, on your tax form, there is an allotment for overpayment. Instead of asking the rest of us to increase our tax burdens, should you think your current tax burden is not properly reflective of your "fair share", then simply overpay to the federal government and leave the rest of us out of it.

Doesn't a higher progressive marginal income tax rate on higher income people make them pay "their fair share" since its on a Net and Gross Basis? And before you throw in all the deductions, its a moot point because the AMT tax gets you...

Lower class dont pay taxes (see my example above)...

Its pretty simple that everyone should share in the future pain (because its coming) instead of asking the people who pay 70% of the taxes in this country to pay even more....

gargelj and TA - when I only made a marginal money - $150-250K per year I paid about 30-35% in taxes. Now that I am a multi millionaire I pay about 17-18% in taxes. I think that the wealthy should pay the same percentage (if not more) than the middle class.

also the "people who pay 70% of the taxes" earn about 90% of the money and they benefit from the government much more so than the poor.

people who "whine" about the wealthy paying too much in taxes are cry babies who dont understand that the wealthy dont pay enough and the wealthy are subsidized by the middle class.

Over the last two years, McCain ranked 65th out of 100 senators in voting with their party. Obama ranked 6th. He is one of the most left-wing members of the senate. So much for petr's conclusions about McCain siding with Bush with everything.

McCain voted 90% of the time with Bush. Obama voted 90% of the time against Bush.

If you favor what Bush policies did for our country vote McCain. If you dont want anymore of the disasterous and irresponsible Bush policies vote Obama.

petrfitz - any tips on reducing my tax burden would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps you can refer me to your accountant?

"$150-250K per year I paid about 30-35% in taxes. Now that I am a multi millionaire I pay about 17-18% in taxes."

At $150-250K you should have been paying 17-18% with the right deductions...i cannot comment on why you didn't, but im sure it must be for sensationalism purposes and to skew your results...

And i guess the AMT doesnt apply to you...congrads on you 17-18% taxes....the reason your not paying "you fair share" is because you are "cheating" on your taxes...

But keep up with your unsubstatiated analysis and I'll stick to the facts....

"when I only made a marginal money - $150-250K per year I paid about 30-35% in taxes."

Problem is that your buddy Obama thinks that marginal money in itself makes you "one of the wealthiest Americans" so you make my point. If you want to means test income tax, great--tax true wealth, not income (unless its above a true "wealth" producing threshold, which 150 or 250 is certainly NOT.

and BTW "people who pay 70% of the taxes" make only 65.23% of the money...

God only knows where you go the "McCain voted 90% of the time with Bush. Obama voted 90% of the time against Bush."

but again, don't let the facts get in the way...

garelj - please cite where you get that data from

it seems that the Clintons want Obama to lose so she can run again in 2012.

Vice President Dick Cheney and Lynne Cheney reported that they paid $393,518 in taxes on total income of $2.17 million and taxable income of $1.74 million. The Cheneys saved $81,336 from the Bush tax cuts, Citizens for Tax Justice said. the Cheneys paid a rate of 22.7 percent - are they "cheating" on their taxes?

Also i wonder how much income was not reported byu the cheneys as it was buried in charitable trusts, etc.

Julia - i would be open to hearing what mccain has to say but he never talks about policy. it seems all he is concerned with is Madonna, Britney, and Paris Hilton.

I cite it from the same place you do....

They didnt cheat on their taxes, but you sure got "cheated" on your taxes if you we're paying 30-35% at 150,000 a year....

so dont give me this BS that the wealthy pay less than the middle class...its just a tired argument...and you dont even hear the "fair share" argument anymore...it such a class warfare term....penalize small business owners, entreprenuers and the like more for their hard work...sounds like winner everytime....

if Perot didnt run you do know Republicans would be president evertime since Carter pretty much as a standard...i dont see that changing anytime soon....

garelj - shhould we even bother to vote or have the Republicans already secured the outcome?

I am sure that Republicans will win this year, after all 83 % of americans think that the country is headed in the wrong direction and its all Obama's fault, or Clintons, or the gays, or the illegals, jsut not Bush's or the Republican policies.

or the %9 favorable rating Democratic Congress...nah, has nothing to do with them....

In a rather surprising result, "Americans rate price gouging by the oil companies, price gouging by foreign oil producers, and a lack of effective action by Congress as the most important reasons why the price of gasoline is so high -- essentially equating congressional inaction with price gouging."

BTW its 80% based on the latest poll....

But again, no need for facts to get in the way...83% sounds like a "smarter" number...

Why not give the democrats a chance? Eight years of Bush..they tried they failed. Let's give the democrats eight years; Obama will help us in how the world views us.

garelj says ""Americans rate price gouging by the oil companies, price gouging by foreign oil producers, and a lack of effective action by Congress as the most important reasons why the price of gasoline is so high -- essentially equating congressional inaction with price gouging."

Funny that the Administration has been run by Oil men for the last 8 years and we have these problems with unbelievably high oil prices?????? Who would have thunk it? Totally by chance right?

And we had high prices when Carter was in office...

What's your point?

ah carter was actually trying to solve the energy crisis for America once and for all and Bush and company were actually trying to make themselves and their oil buddies richer at Americans expense.

Who was it that ripped off the solar panels that Carter put on top of the White House? Oh yeah a Republican........Reagan.

"Obama will help us in how the world views us."

Exactly, they'll know we have a weak President who will kowtow to their selfish needs at every turn a la Bill Clinton's bombing campaign against the Serbs. By the way, where is the indignance against the Europeans for their racism? They started, instigated and profited from slavery in the Americas and their cities and societies are just as segregated as ours. This notion that Europeans somehow have cornered the market on civilized societies is profoundly incorrect.

and it was Bush who put them back on, lockhart.

i think that the country is so much better off and in a better standing in the world now than 8 years ago so we should elect McCain who voted with him over 90% of the time.

"Let's give the democrats eight years;"

Last time we gave them 8 years, the world thanked us by killing 3000 Americans. I'd say we can spare any more of that gratitude.

TA says "the world thanked us by killing 3000 Americans." Didnt that happen under Bush's watch?

Just think, if Kerry/Edwards had been elected, we'd have a love baby scandal going on right now. I'm sure that would heighten our standing in the world.

"Didnt that happen under Bush's watch?"

Have you read the 9/11 Report? Clinton had 3 chances to kill bin Laden. One of which he refused becaused there were women present (terrorist women mind you). Another because he refused to launch missiles from the Gulf. And 9/11/01 is 8 months after Bush took office.

TA - love baby scandel is so much better than a poorly ran pre emptive war, no WOMD, gay hookers int e white house, outing a CI operative, shooting someone in the face, everyone in the country going bankrupt series of scandals.

Petrfitz - I would also like to know how you pay 17-18%. It's a geniune question, I am not being sarcastic. I am not disputing it, would just like to understand.

My wife and I saw out tax guy this morning to finalize our 2007 returns. We made a lot more than $150K, but we're certainly not multi-millionnaires. We got minimal credit for any deductions, charitable contributions, etc. - everything phases well before you get to our income. Our effective federal rate was north of 27%. When you factor in state, local, SS, etc. our total effective tax rate was north of 40%. We asked our guy what we can do to reduce that next year and beyond (i.e. those loopholes for the rich), and he basically "nothing" (with a few exceptions on the fringes).

So I would love to know how the "rich" - i.e. us - can reduce our tax burden. Thanks.

1 - get a better accountant

2 - buy properties - you are renting now.

I'll provide the Pete-to-English translation of that last post...

1 - Cheat

2 - Speculate on real estate

"TA - love baby scandel is so much better than a poorly ran pre emptive war, no WOMD, gay hookers int e white house, outing a CI operative, shooting someone in the face, everyone in the country going bankrupt series of scandals."

You really have got to stop watching MSNBC. Gay hookers in the White House? Thats a new one. And Plame was about as much a "CIA operative" as Miss Moneypenny.

Repeat after me: "Change You Can Believe In" "Obama is Right" "McCain is Wrong". Now rinse and repeat.

TA - so you are saying that the Bush administration did not give Jeff Gannon press credentials?

How many gay hookers did Clinton give daily press credentials to every day for 2 years?

TA - do you also have a "wide stance?"

I have no idea who Jeff Gannon is but I'll google him. I do recall Barney Frank letting his gay hooker page live with him and no one cared about that one.