Even New Yorkers agree that Chicago buildings are better

Rufus - which way does the traffic on 7th Avenue go? How about Park Avenue? You couldn't find the answers out on-line after 45 mintes so you bolted.

You've been proven on the other thread to not actually live in NYC and then you ran away and started this thread.

What a poser!

Proven never to have been to NY.

waverly, what's the point of answering your asinine question when you've determined that i don't live in NYC?

once again, your jealousy of Chicago is transparent.

yeah, i guess all those people on the forum i linked to, don't live in NYC either, right?

why can't you just admit that Chicago's residential buildings are clearly superior to NYC?

what I want to know is why you need anonymous people on a NYC RE site to tell you what you demand to hear. Seriously dude...complex or what? No one is telling you you cant love Chicago but stop ramming this bullsh*t down our throats.

(Sorry, can't help but feed the troll here)

rufus, did you even read the thread you linked to? Lots of people seem to favor NYC buildings. I'm also guessing you posted all the pro-Chicago ones. Congrats.

you guys should look up the drawings of chicago residential buildings like the spire, waterview tower, mandarin oriental, aqua, legacy, elysian, etc. They're FAR above the caliber of NYC condos that are going up. Do some research before you bash Chicago.

The wired thread clearly stated that all the new high-rises in Chicago are parking garages with some housing stuck on top. Can't they afford to put the parking underground so nobody has to look at it?

arguably the best condo in NYC is 15 central park west, which is nice but not as good as the ultra-exclusive chicago condos that are going up.

15cpw has a kick-ass discount rec-room electrical-supply chain-store at street-level. Is that what you mean by luxury? Or is your point that at least its first ten stories aren't a parking garage?

i'm talking about the overall architecture. the new chicago condos look more modern, sleek, and sophisticated, than the nyc condos. but i don't expect you to know anything about taste.

Yeah, Rufus, reading your posts the first thing that comes to mind about you is sophisticated....and by that I mean not so much.

The fact that you are even bothering to say that new and sleek condos going up in Chicago are architecturally more pleasing than the hundreds of brownstones and dozens of pre-war buildings with intricate details in NYC is such a simple and unsophisticated view of architecture. When you take a girl out on a dtae to a good restaurant, do you order the unlimited salad bowl at Olive Garden to share? That seems to be on your level of sophistication.

Look, sweetie, I'm sure you like Chicago very, very much, but you know it's, well, Chicago. So off you go to the Field museum like a good boy, and have a nice day. No one here is interested in Chicago RE, or we'd be on one of those boards.

Chicago = Fail

Is rufus actually that guy who won the first Apprentice, Bill Rancik? But hey, Chitown does have two teams in the playoffs. More than I can say for NYC.

Rufus = Dufus

Patrick_Bateman, are you bitter about your rejection at Citadel Investment in Chicago?

OK, I think we can all agree that someone needs to chop rufus's nuts off.

LMAO, Rufus is desperate.

I read that wired New York thread and only ONE person thought that Chicago had superior buildings to NYC. Did you actually read the thread?

But look at this other thread on Skyscraper page, a CHICAGOAN wrote:

"I really hate to admit this, but Post 9-11, New York has pretty much destroyed Chicago in terms of progressive design. No one hates saying this more than me. We have some nice developments indeed, and I have never been happier to be a Chicagoan, but the sheer volume of money that flowed into NYC after the attacks (some of it unjustified public funds IMO - let's not go there) and well-deserved citizen support have produced a huge crop of buildings by the best designers. For example, I get very angry when I see Hines hires Pickard-Chilton in Chicago, but for less-profitable buildings hires Norman Foster and Jean Nouvel in NYC."

http://forum.skyscraperpage.com/showthread.php?t=140434&page=2

He is from Chicago and there are a few other Chicagoans who agreed that NYC has better high-rises.

And I looked through the "Most Beautiful cities in the world" and 85% of the posters put NYC in their list out of the hundreds of replies. Only ONE person put Chicago down. So there goes your theory.

http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showthread.php?t=358339&page=23

michaelkyleh, you crack me up! if you read that first thread, the people agree that Chicago is doing the most innovative work in architecture. The vast majority of apartment buildings in NYC are ugly brown boxes while Chicago condos are elegant, refined, and unique. For example, go to battery park city. All the condos there have the same color and bland look; from a distance, it's difficult to distinguish between the different buildings. But since you know nothing about Chicago, I'll forgive your profound ignorance.

Let me see... an idiot from Chicago claims Chicago is better. As "evidence", he points at another Chicago idiot who, well, just claims Chicago is better.

BTW, I'm in Chicago right now (I'm not kidding). It sucks.

But rufie isn't an idiot from Chicago. He's an idiot from Hammond, Indiana.

What are you doing in Chicago?
1. trading pork bellies
2. gambling

Those are the only industries there, other than murder.

nyc10022, what part of chicago are you at? you there for business? maybe you should check out the upscale restaurants and clubs if you're bored. today is a wednesday, so y-bar is really happening, but most likely, you won't be able to get in. their wednesday night party is full of models.

alanhart, Chicago is the world's capital of derivatives trading. you probably don't even know what that means.

It means gambling. See "option" #2 in my last post.

This thread is hilarious. Why are we discussing Chicago?

While we're at it, I agree that Chicago architecture is more innovative than NYC architecture. And I am speaking as a native New Yorker. Unfortunately, usable square footage trumps architecture in Manhattan, so most skyscrapers become big boring boxes. But it's not just a matter of architecture. It's also a matter of urban planning. The classical buildings in Chicago have more presence because there is more space around them. Take the Wrigley Building in Chicago as viewed from Michigan Ave, for example. The Woolworth Building in NYC downtown has similar detail and design, but there's not enough space for anyone to even notice. I do think we could learn a lesson or two about architecture and urban planning from Chicago. But of course, we run circles around Chicago in just about everything else.

minicooper24, your thoughts on Chicago architecture and urban planning is 100% right. The NYC buildings are ugly bland boxes; they can't even come close to the masterpieces that Chicago is producing.

you're dead wrong however that NYC runs circles around Chicago in "just about everything else." The next year will be amazing for Chicago: Cubs are the favorite to win the world series, Obama will almost certainly win the white house, and Chicago will win the 2016 Olympics bid. In contrast, NYC will not have anything remotely similar to celebrate. Chew on that before you say something stupid.

Minicooper and rufus, I'm confused.

So New York City has sub-par urban planning because it is extremely dense and buildings go unnoticed? So should NYC tear down all the buildings in the way of the masterpieces so that they can stand out like the ones Chicago? Or should NYC somehow move it's skyscrapers and line them up like in Chicago? How nonsensical. The denseness and juxtaposition of the buildings is the thing I absolutely love about NYC. I live in Paris, and of course I think Paris (and all our old buildings) is the most beautiful city in the world; but I've been to Chicago and NYC and I think New York is far more beautiful and majestic and the buildings in New York absolutely trump those in Chicago...to even think otherwise is absurd.

I've been to New York many a time, but what does it for me everytime is when you're coming from JFK in a taxi and suddenly you see the huge, dense skyline appear in front of you (that skyline, which is so entrenched in popular culture, photographs etc. - i think it's more of a deal if you're European, you can never quite believe you're actually seeing it) and it excites me every time. In contrast, I've been to Chicago and it looks so "plain" compared to New York City. I didn't really like it.

Rufie, chew on a towel when you're getting electroconvulsive therapy. Just so you don't bite your tongue.

Hey, how's the condo search in Lakeview going? And remind us, because we always forget: what's Lakeview's nickname?

ROFL my comment about rufus got deleted!

> maybe you should check out the upscale restaurants and clubs if you're bored.

I did... thats why I'm bored. This is upscale?

> their wednesday night party is full of models.

Sears catalog models?

No, John Deere models.

sticky, I love deleted comments! But I missed yours. When was it, and what was the gist of it?

EU1, I agree that there is a certain imposing sense of majesty in seeing the NYC skyline as you climb and then descend the final hill over the Long Island Expressway into the Midtown Tunnel. I actually make that drive every day and it never ceases to create a sense of awe. But that is neither architecture nor urban planning. In fact, that sense of awe arises precisely because there is a LACK of urban planning. What impresses me most about the NYC skyline is not any single building or feature, but the enormous mass of buildings which seem to coalesce into one another. It's almost incomprehensible to think of the time, energy and resources invested in this relatively tiny rock of an island, not only in terms of buildings, but also in terms of people who come to NYC pursuing their dreams. The density and energy of NYC is awe-inspiring in the way that the Rocky Mountains or the Grand Canyon is awe-inspiring - as a force of nature, apparently haphazard and without deliberate design in its creation, but again, that is neither architecture nor urban planning. I think you mistake my criticism of NYC for a lack of pride. I love this city. But I do think it could be improved with a little more thought towards urban planning, particularly with regard to the preservation of open spaces and the development of waterfront properties.

That was beautiful minicooper24!

Furthermore, a little urban planning goes a long way towards accentuating the NYC skyline and increasing livability. Think of Central Park.

rufus says Chicago buildings are better, ok, sounds good
but rufus is also someone who says Chicago is better because the black hoodlums aren't near the white people and the projects aren't allowed near the "sleek" developments for the upper class.
So continue to argue with him as you will about buildings ... or be more sensible and ignore him and move on

I remarked that these discussions would be take a turn for better if someone were to do something unpleasant to rufus's genitalia.

Oh, that. He probably printed it out and put it in his diary.

nyc10022, care to give specific names of place you went to, or are you bullshitting as usual?

Rufie, how's the condo search in Lakeview going? And remind us, because we always forget: what's Lakeview's nickname?

i'm looking at condos in lakeshore east, streeterville, and gold coast. those areas are all nicer than anything NYC has to offer.

another one of your dumb questions. lakeview is also called wrigleyville.

bzzzzzz wrong. Wrigleyville is a little part of Lakeview.

What's the primary nickname for Lake View, AKA Lakeview East?

alanhart, you should've been more specific. i've heard a lot of chicagoans use lakeview and wrigleyville interchangeably. to answer your dumb question, lakeview east is also known as boystown.

Ooooooo Boystown?

Maybe I should check it out after all.

This Rufus character reminds me of me years ago when I used to spend my idle time logging on to BBS's (remember, those pre-internet relics, ye computer old-timers?) and getting into message board shouting matches about which computers were better, Ataris or Commodores.

I got over that phase in my life when I was about 11.

Rufus, your incessant proclivity for logging on to this site to extol the virtues of Chicago and lambast New York City is tiresome, annoying and, since everyone, (and I mean EVERYONE's) efforts to shout you down has only impelled you to start more and more inane threads on this topic, it's clear that you get some kind of twisted thrill for being the thorn in everyone's side. Enough. It's juvenile.

The fact of the matter is that if you were to somehow take a survey of all residents of New York City and the rest of the world, it's quite likely that the vast, vast majority would agree that NYC is a superior city to Chicago in virtually all ways from culture to business to art to architecture to everything else. Hell, I think even most Chicago residents would agree that if their particular job or family or economic situation were not an issue, they'd likely prefer to live here.

But that is completely irrelevant. This is a real estate message board, devoted to the goings-on in the NYC market. I'm sure another one - if not another million - exist for Chicago. And it would be wonderful if you waxed poetic about all of the new condo development going on in Chi-town there. But to endlessly droll on and on about something which cannot be proven, and is simply a matter of taste, is a trite waste of time, particularly when you choose to engage in such inanities in a venue in which you know you're going to get lampooned. Stop acting like an 11-year old geek obsessed with and convinced of the superiority of his computer and grow up. Live in Chicago or post in a Chicago board about how wonderful life and architecture and everything else is there, and leave this venue to the purpose for which it was designed: thoughtful discussions about NYC real estate.

Enough.

It is purely a matter of taste, but I find it absurd to think that NYC lacks quality architecture. Some of the architects who have recently built, are building or are soon to break ground:
Jean Nouvel
Frank Gehry
Herzog & de Meuron
Richard Meier
Robert A.M. Stern
Rem Koolhas
Renzo Piano
Shigeru Ban

I know I am missing others but this is a good place to start.

My Commodore 64, hooked up to my Teevee as a monitor, and to my electric typewriter with (parallel?) port, kicked ass!

Ataris suck

Why are New Yorkers so jealous of Chicago? It really is mind boggling. People here constantly bash Chicago and any other city that is not NYC. The elitism and pseudo-sophistication is sickening.

What? I was bashing the Atari, because the Commodore 64 is the joint!

Do you like the Corn Cob Towers, aka Marina City?

marina city is not my favorite building by any means. the new trump international looks amazing though, better than the one in NYC. LOL!

Why are YOU jealous of New York City? You don't even live or have been to NYC yet you are posting on a NYC forum. Why???

Please just retreat to your poor third-tier city and let us be.

I hate to encourage dufus or whatever his name is, but I lived in Chicago for a year and while it is a nice Midwestern city, it is just that - a nice Midwestern city. Other than size, it is no different than St. Louis, Cleveland or any other Midwestern city. New York, however, is a world class city, comparable to London, Paris, Hong Kong, etc. Rufus - I hate to break it to you, but an upscale restaurant in Chicago generally means "your entre comes with salad" or the waitress asks "would you like ranch or blue cheese dressing on your salad". And have you seen how people dress in Chicago - I would see more overweight poorly dressed people (they love their Dockers and khakis in Chicago) in one restaurant in Chicago than I would in 10 blocks in NYC. The Chicago club scene - better than Marquee or Tenjune? Please. As for real estate (the point of this board), I challenge you to find any part of Chicago nicer than Park Avenue, Central Park West, 5th Avenue, the West Village, etc. On the other hand, Chicago does have Gibson's steakhouse and Tavern on Rush going for it, which is nice (sarcasm).

New Yorkers consider chicago flyover country.

Chicago is for people who can't afford NYC.

rufie, would you say that the new Trump International in Chicago has an essentially phallic appearance to it, or would you say that it does not have an essentially phallic appearance to it? Which one would you say?

Please note that a Streeteasy blacklist of Rufus has been enacted.

Rufus is to be ignored at every step.

When he realizes that he has no one to play with but himself, he will leave and go play with himself.

NYC_123, thanks for actually writing a substantive post, but you're wrong on so many levels.

first, if you dismiss Chicago's restaurant scene, you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. ever heard of alinea? it's been ranked as the best U.S. restaurant several times. Other restaurants like charlie trotter, tru, blackbird, everest, have consistently been ranked at the top. Food critics all agree that Chicago's food scene is elite and on its own level.

second, the vast majority of fat people you see in Chicago are tourists or people visiting from the suburbs. in this sense, it's no different from all the fatties you see in times square.

third, i can't believe you actually mentioned marquee and tenjune. the former has sucked for at least 2 years now, and the latter is only good on tuesday nights. your knowledge of NYC nightlife is limited to reading cityguide or zagat.

finally, lakeshore east, magnificent mile, streeterville, river north, gold coast, lincoln park, and parts of lakeview, are nicer than almost all of NYC. the only exception is fifth avenue from 60th-96th. I was never that impressed with park avenue. the apartment buildings all look the same: brown and bland.

rufie, would you say that the new Trump International in Chicago has an essentially phallic appearance to it, or would you say that it does not have an essentially phallic appearance to it? Which one would you say?

I've been throughout Chicago and there is absolutely NO part of Chicago that looks nicer than 5th Avenue, Park Avenue, Turtle Bay, Central Park South, Central Park West West, Tudor City, Upper East Side, the West Village,...I could go on and on.

For the 10th time, an area with glass high-rises doesn't make it beautiful. If that were the case, Battery Park City is more beautiful than Chicago.

And if that were the case Houston is more beautiful than Chicago because there is more new development in Houston you freaking idiot.

chrisyslslr, i guess you've never walked around gold coast, where you see beautiful townhomes and mansions. they're much more attractive than the boring apartments on park avenue.

battery park city doesn't look that nice because all the high-rises basically look the same. also, most of them are below 30 stories; they're not even that tall.

So rufie, what you're saying is that you like really tall skyscrapers, and not residential towers that are on the smaller side?

Um, rufus the "mansions" in Chicago do not compare to anything we have here in New York. Sorry

And yes I've walked around the Gold Coast.

Rufus wrote
"Why are New Yorkers so jealous of Chicago? It really is mind boggling. People here constantly bash Chicago and any other city that is not NYC. The elitism and pseudo-sophistication is sickening."

Just switch Chicago and New York in that sentence and you have exactly what Rufus himself is doing. Hypocrisy at it's finest! Did you learn from Petrfitz?

"And have you seen how people dress in Chicago - I would see more overweight poorly dressed people (they love their Dockers and khakis in Chicago) in one restaurant in Chicago than I would in 10 blocks in NYC."

TOTALLY. I just got back, and the one thing my travel companion said to me was "I've never seen a so called city with so many people in sweatpants". We had a limo and had the driver take us to several neighborhoods. To claim it was all tourists is wishful thinking.

BTW, the tourists we make fun of in NYC the most are from, well, the midwest...

nyc10022, since you claimed to have gone out, can you name some of the restaurants and clubs you went to in Chicago?

You mean like McDonald's and The Insane Gangster City Knights?

I've been to Blackbird and while it is a good solid restaurant, it wouldn't make the top 40 in NYC. Trotter's and Everest are great restaurants (Trotter's more than Everest, in my opinion), but neither beat the top 5 in NYC (at a minimum, I put Per Se, Daniel, Jean Georges, Bouley, and Joel Robuchon ahead of it; Chanterelle, Le Bernardin, Gordon Ramsey, Le Cirque and others are at least as good, if not better). I haven't been to Tru or Alinea. I'm sure they are good; I doubt they compare to any of the best in NYC. While magazines sometimes rank 1 or 2 Chicago restaurants highly, it is because any listing of the "Top 10 restaurants in the US" that only has NYC restaurants on it is not going to sell nationally. Trust me - Blackbird is a good, solid restaurant and I enjoyed my meals there - I can think of 40-50 restaurants in NYC that are comparable or better (I compare it to Perry Street in NYC - a good solid restaurant, but not something overly unique).

Michigan Avenue has good shopping, but it is the same stores that are found in every MALL in New Jersey and Long Island. Sorry, but Chicago doesn't have anything to compare to Madison Avenue (and don't bring up Oak Street, which is a block long and has but a few decent stores).

Go into any of the better restaurants in Chicago (or offices buildings or restaurants or bars ...) and people look like the stereotypical Midwesterner - sneakers, sweatpants, sweatshirts, baseball caps, etc.

One last thing, while I'm sure Tru is a good restaurant, it is hard to take any restaurant that has a "frequent dinner card" seriously (for those in NYC not familiar with it, Tru (and Everest for that matter) is part of the "Lettuce Entertain You" restaurant club - every time you dine at one of their 50 or so restaurants (ranging from fast-food, to Greek food, to "fine" dining"), you give them your "frequent dinner card" and you accrue points. Imagine the reaction if Daniel or Per Se had such a program). Check out www.leye.com - it's almost funny...

NYC_123, so you're saying that the rankings of U.S. restaurants aren't accurate? The results were compiled from a survey of leading chefs and culinary critics from all across the country. It makes no sense that they would intentionally lie to make Chicago restaurants look better. You're grasping at straws here.

Also, your assertion that people at nice Chicago restaurants, bars, etc., are dressed in baseball caps and sweatshirts, is utterly false. The top venues have a dress code; men are not allowed to wear shorts, sandals, baseball caps. Do you really think people who frequent top NYC clubs and restaurants somehow look different from Chicago people? Because that is a claim which is patently absurd.

> The top venues have a dress code; men are not allowed to wear shorts, sandals, baseball caps.

Wow, now THAT is what I call snazzy!

Any place without baseball caps and, uh, SHORTS must be top rate!

How sad that they have to have a dress code. What's up with that? Would Chicagoans otherwise show up in sweatpants and truckers' caps? Or maybe those awful navy blazers with brass buttons and an implied captain's cap? Aye Aye, Cappy

nyc10022, you still haven't answered my question about what places you went to in Chicago. or were you just making it up?

rufie, you still haven't answered "what you're saying is that you like really tall skyscrapers, and not residential towers that are on the smaller side?" . . . or were you just making everything up?

It's not enough to ban "shorts, sandals, [and] baseball caps". No self-respecting NYer would, for example, show up to Perry Street wearing Dockers, a polo shirt, and a pair of Echos (I had never heard of Echo's until I went to Chicago). In Chicago (and elsewhere in the Midwest for that matter), that is considered perfectly well dressed. And don't forget the ubiquitous gold chains...

Face-it, Rufus, Chicago is the Midwest and the Midwest is Chicago. Trying to argue that Chicago compares to NY is like the kid who went to U of Illinois trying to tell the kid from Northwestern that U of Illinois school is just as good - the kid from Northwestern plays along for a while, but inside is laughing at the stupidity of the argument.

NYC_123, although you're right that Chicago is geographically in the midwest, it attracts similar people as NYC: bright, ambitious, and successful people. Chicago is the world's capital of derivatives trading, not to mention the plethora of companies like boeing, are headquartered there. i've been to top restaurants and clubs in both cities, and in terms of dress, there is no difference. The Chicago venues do, however, have more attractive women than NYC.

what part of Chicago did you live in? i'm sure even you must admit that Chicago nightlife scene is superior to NYC.

barndance jamboree!

Oh, and drinking stops really early -- like 2:30 or 3:00

alanhart, once again you're wrong. on the weekends the Chicago bars close at 4, some even 5.

I lived in River North. Nightlife scene in Chicago better than NYC? Are you crazy? Not even close - the argument is silly. Better looking women in Chicago than NYC? Now that is funny. I would try to point out examples, but I am laughing too hard.

Chicago may be the derivatives capital - but NY has the NYSE, publishing, investment banking, fashion, finance and on and on. Even Charlotte, NC of all places is a bigger financial player than Chicago.

Your arguments are like saying Omaha is a great city because Mutual of Omaha and Warren Buffet are there (but I'm sure those who live in Omaha think that, which is nice for them).

I gotta get back to work now; thanks for providing some comic relief.

3am Su-Fr; 4am Saturday night only ("New York Night")

you still haven't answered "what you're saying is that you like really tall skyscrapers, and not residential towers that are on the smaller side?"

I've been laughing for the past 10 minutes @ rufus's "Chicago attracts similar people as NYC: bright, ambitious, and successful people."

Umm, no. Chicago attracts people who live in the Midwest. It is a very well known fact that Chicago does NOT attract world-players and the up and coming elite. The people who dream of making it big in NYC's industries; finance, fashion, media, entertainment, etc. all flee to New York City.

The ones who just want to get by and are content with living a life of mediocrity stay/move to Chicago.

Come on,...why don't you know that? I'm not trying to be rude, I'm just telling the truth here.

Prada_Addict, it's not my fault that you know nothing about the nightlife and social scene of either Chicago or NYC. you're one of those guys who think they're "cool" and "elite" because they buy bottles at overhyped clubs like marquee or cain. next time you're in Chicago, check out stone lotus, y-bar, rednofive, bon V, krem (if you can get in, that is), and you'll admit that Chicago's scene is more exclusive and upscale.

Stoned Trolls (self-explanatory), YMCA Bar (in Lakeview?), fiveredbarns (pimps and hoedowns), Bonbon U. (fat girls abound), krustykremefed (more fat girls, a Chicago theme).

[apologies to the fat girls]

> Chicago's scene is more exclusive and upscale.

I'm amazed that Rufus has the stamina to keep repeating the comedy in the face of all facts and logic...

nyc10022, i've mentioned specific nightlife venues in both cities because i've been to them. no one has actually refuted any of my claims on this matter.

> alanhart, once again you're wrong. on the weekends the Chicago bars close at 4, some even 5.

Ooh, on the weekends! Sounds like a hopping town to me! Like Hoboken!

Chicago is DEAD on weekdays. And we were in several of the "nightlife" neighborhoods (had a driver taking us around). At midnight, barely a soul on the street at any of 'em.

That is the opposite of cosmopolitan....

"I'm amazed that Rufus has the stamina to keep repeating the comedy in the face of all facts and logic..."

People with frontal lobe damage tend to think in a concrete manner, they have trouble understanding hidden meanings and have a great deal of trouble changing their line of thought.

Ignoring comment by rufus. Click here to reveal it.

Hmmmm, no, I will continue to ignore.

rufus, I'll grant you that NYC is a legend in its own eyes - however, being in Chicago, Buffalo or Rochester is dangerous for me because people only pronounce one vowel, at most two, in their English - this makes what they say incomprehensible to me, so it would not matter if Chicago's architecture were vastly superior, because if I ask for directions I won't understand them without a translator

nyc10022, you claimed that chicago is "dead" on the weekdays and yet fail to name a single place that you went to.

Rufus nobody cares about specific nightlife venues in Chicago. Billy Joel and Bruce might not be your first choice in entertainment but they are iconic. Bruce--NJ; Billy---the horrible LI (where I'm from and love)
Are Billy and Bruce going to do a concert for Obama in Chicago?

No, New York because that's where people with the most money and who will spend it on politics are. So Obama might represent IL, but it's NY that's giving him a concert.

What seminal groups came out of Chicago? You only seem to care about night life in terms of hitting on girls and there's so much more to nightlife in New York

Real New Yorkers go out during the week. Weekends are for tourists and have been forever

As to something you said about Chicago baseball. Every few years the Yankees decide to let another team win--maybe a few teams for a few years but the Yankees have won more world series than any team in history.

You're dragging dead horses here and i'm just answering to relieve some tension and to keep from working. Your amusement value is priceless

One thing you should have learned about New Yorkers awhile ago. We fight amongst ourselves like crazy. But nowhere else will you find people who will stick up for each other as much

I believe the last "good book" written about Chicago was "The Correction" and anything by Saul Bellow.

Books taking place in New York or written by New Yorkers with a New York tude? Too many to count

Or don't you care about books? Too many words for you? Old school? Dead?

Films? I can't even begin to name the ones filmed in or about New York. TV. Let's not even go there.
Whether you choose to admit or not these things are important to a city's identity

Oh I love Jean George, but I think the mark of a city's restaurants are the neighborhood places people go to weekly or more. $20 entree or less. New York has almost an embarrassment of riches as we have so many ethnic groups and each brings its cuisine. But you don't like ethnic groups so....

jadedinNY, yeah i'm sure the yankees and mets purposely had a lousy season, out of the compassion of their hearts. LOL!

i brought up nightlife because Prada_Addict constantly talks about how much more elite and upscale NYC is than Chicago. The only people who actually believe that are delusional new yorkers.

http://www.forbestraveler.com/adventure/party-cities-story.html
Forbes Traveler
World's Best Party Cities
(click slideshow)

Salient points:
1. NYC at #1
2. Hvar ranks!!!!!
3. Glaringly missing: Akron, Chicago, Tulsa

alanhart, only losers like you rely on forbestraveler to determine which city has the best social scene.

what matters is quality. of course NYC has MORE clubs, bars, and lounges, than Chicago. It has 3 times more people! but if you compare the 10 most exclusive Chicago venues to NYC's, i guarantee you that people prefer Chicago. next time you visit Chicago, try to check out the tuesday party at stone lotus, wednesday party at y-bar, underground on friday, or krem on sunday. i was amazed at how much more upscale these places were than NYC.

Rufus - I can assure you that everybody reading your posts is laughing at the stupidity of your posts. You remind me of so many of the people I knew in Chicago who would say "Chicago has everything NYC has, just fewer of them". My response was "Omaha (or Des Moines or Cleveland or ...) has everything Chicago has, just fewer of them". You are a typical Midwesterner with an inferiority complex. NYC will always be bigger, better, finer, grander, classier, etc. Thank you, however, for providing us all with a good laugh.

Even rufus can't believe the crap he is trying to push here. He obviously is just talking nonsense to get a rise out of people. Chicago's clubs? Restaurants? Compared to NYC? Please . . .

your analogy is false. comparing omaha to chicago is NOT the equivalent of comparing Chicago to NYC. the fact of the matter is, Chicago has restaurants that are ranked as some of the best in the country while Omaha does not. so your analogy is downright retarded.

since no one else on this board has gone to upscale clubs in both Chicago and NYC, i'm going to trust my own eyes.

what happened to the rufus embargo? this has gone so far off the scale its hilarious. Somehow a website dedicated to NYC RE has been reduced to arguing over how many nice restaurants and clubs (like anyone other than Roofie even gives a crap) there are in Chicago. WTF?

Sizz, we're trying to contain it here, like a blight. Remove your shoes before going back to a real thread.

Rufie, it's already been established that you've never been to NY, and probably not even Chicago, so you can trust your eyes as to what you've read in 4H Monthly Magazine.

As to size, you focus on size, and you'll notice that Hvar made the top ten party list, so we needn't get into the relative population of Akron and the number of beerhalls they have vs. Hammond, Indiana.

I don't mean to burst your bubble -- I'm sure Chicago restaurants serve lots of good Veg-All with Marshmallow Fluff and Miracle Whip ("want cheese on that?") -- but it's not what the first world wants.