Manhattan still filthy and dreary

What a miserable way of starting the year, dear. Have you been hanging out with Rufus?

Life goes by quickly. You should savor it. Not suffer through it. In life, we are surrounded by the consequences of your own decisions. If you live here, it is because you choose to. Why do you choose something that you then say makes you unhappy? Perhaps, the fault lies not with this city, but within you. Why not devote 2009 to gaining more personal insight and self-awareness so you can make choices that help you celebrate life and not mope through it blaming inanimate things like pavement and buildings or even an entire city for your unhappiness.

That's just the post-holiday winter blahs talking. Things'll start looking up soon :)

Meantime, perhaps a vacation to someplace warm and sunny would be in order?

just leave then.. beleive me, no one here will miss you..

The city is really dirty. I don't think anyone is denying that. Probably one of the dirtiest major cities in the world.

If you're not happy, move to san diego, los angeles, or miami. Better weather, more laid back lifestyle, and much better looking people.

Julia: How old are you? Any dependents? Single?

We're both looking at the market now. Maybe we can make this work out.

the suburbs are clean. why not move there?

> The city is really dirty. I don't think anyone is denying that. Probably one of the dirtiest major
> cities in the world.

Actually, I've been to a lot of 'em, and thats not really true.

> The city is really dirty. I don't think anyone is denying that. Probably one of the dirtiest major
> cities in the world.

Shut the fuck up. Seriously, I've been traveling since I was a toddler and this is the dumbest thing I've heard in my life. Dirty compared to what? Irvine? Greenwich? Orlando? How many people live in New York, 8mm? I think I'd expect it to be somewhat dirty.

Furthermore, you can't complain about filth and then mention the word "Los Angeles" (where I'm from and still live). Los Angeles is probably the most polluted, disgusting city in the United States. I don't hate LA at all, it's pretty cool (with the exception of the filth/pollution), but I thought I'd just correct your BS.

San Diego? LOL, I guess if you're a old, boring loser. Miami is decent, but you and Julia can scream and damn NY from the top of your lungs until you croak, but people will always see NY as "the best", because it IS the best.

----

And Julia, what was the point of coming onto this board and asking us why YOU bother living in NY? We don't know or care why you bother living in NY, dumbass, ask yourself that in your own head and come up with your own conclusion. If you don't like living there in NY, leave. Your place will be filled immediately.

And if I may add, I've been to NY dozens of time and I have no idea what you're talking about. It looks vibrant and wonderful.....maybe it's the depressing northeastern winter that's making it
"dreary".

ok, the language is quite harsh... but the points are right on.

I'm wondering if some of these commenters have been to other cities... or NYC, for that matter.

I bet this is Rufus' post. He realized many people had blocked him and he is posing as Julia today. Or maybe he has multiple posting personalities and today 2 of them got mixed-up...

the thought did cross my mind

If you have to ask why you should be living in New York then you shouldn't be living in New York.

justinb, your harsh language and hostile tone is deeply disturbing.

I'm not condoning julia's negative post; I'm merely saying that NYC is really dirty, and I could see why people would get depressed if they live here for a while. And yes, I've been to most major cities in the world, so I'm speaking from experience.

Julia, please get some therapy and definitely legal prescription antidepressants...
We just had a woman jump into the Hudson River a few weeks ago in BPC and just by luck a man walking his dog saw her (around midnight). He was a professional scuba diver and instantly reacted knowing the danger since the current is very strong and water, of course, very cold. He jumped in and saved her...I wonder if she will be forever grateful and get the help she needs. Incredibly selfless individual to risk his own life for another.

julia - drop the "here"

I was 99% sure this was going to be a rufus thread before I opened it.

NYC is a city of 8 million residents, during the work week it swells even larger, it has millions of tourists a year. It has one of the highest population densities (if not the highest) of any large city in the country. I think New York is extremely clean considering these realities. If it's not to your liking you should consider living someplace less populated and less vibrant. Or, you are free to pick up trash you see on the ground or sweep the streets. Otherwise, suck it up. It's really not that bad. It's called urban living. Saying it with me now, "Urban." Good boy.

Chicago has millions of people, but it's extremely clean.

I'll give you a hint: alleys and good urban planning.

NYC needs to get its act together. No wonder it's fallen so far behind.

"No wonder it's fallen so far behind."

Fallen behind in this imaginary list of best places on earth you keep in your head?

I'm kind of amazed you don't get sick of yourself Rufus.

rufus, please read my handle.

Chicago - 2.8 million in 237 sq mi
NYC - 8.3 million people in 305 sq mi

(whoops)

Chicago is barely a city, its like a town on a lake.

Chicago is a village hamlet compared to NY.

Oh yeah. Chicago is clean. Right. Ever walk into the Wicker Park subway? It is as disgusting and squalid as anywhere I have ever traveled on four continents. God knows what peeling from the walls, nets failing to catch the crumbling ceiling, human waste in corners, every inch covered with decades of grime. Please don't tell me about the Gold Coast or I'll just refer you to the Plaza lobby. Compare apples and apples. I would take NYC's subway a zillion times over Chicago's. Chicago is clean. Like a homeless man's ass. Please.

kylewest, that's fair. Let's do compare apples to apples.

Wicke park is still cleaner than lower east side or east village, which is NYC's equivalent of wicker park. And the peninsula hotel or ritz carlton in Chicago is nicer than NYC's best hotels.

> And the peninsula hotel or ritz carlton in Chicago is nicer than NYC's best hotels.

When the "nicest hotels" are the chains, you know the city has an issue....

> which is NYC's equivalent of wicker park.

Backward... the Chicago neighborhoods are attempts to copy NYC, not the other way around. We don't care about your crappy wanna be neighborhoods. Chicago needs to compare everything it does to NYC...

I lived in so. fl. and closed my business there and am about to do so here in ny. any suggestions of places where I don't have to drive...i would love to live in a city similar to ny but not as expensive or dirty.

San Francisco.

Philadelphia.

It's a travesty that NYC is so dirty, given how much we pay in taxes. You would think we would actually get something for our money, such as clean streets and newer buildings.

julia, i recommend san francisco, chicago, and boston.

See, what we have here is an excellent example of the crazy guy strategy. Julia, Rufus, Quantum all act like crazy nutcases, and instead of everyone ignoring those people (or that person ... yes, multiple personality disorder is a good crazy strategy) you all respond over and over about what isn't even a relevant discussion since everyone here lives in NYC and has made their choice regardless of which city is "better".

I live in NYC and lived in San Francisco and have to laugh and laugh and laugh at those who think it's cleaner. It's a stunningly beautiful city in many. many places, but it also has a deep and abiding squalid side--and happens to be the place where I've seen the most human feces on the street.

Singapore

OK, Quantamn sounds waaaaaay too similar to Rufus. Am I the only one who notices this? So taxpayers pay for "new buildings" now? Did you mean new high rises, Rufus? Quantumn = Rufus, period.

And San Francisco is much filthier than New York City. Jesus, do any of you actually get out or does "visiting" a city merely consist of photo touring on flickr.com? San Francisco is beautiful, but it's filthy. Manhattan is clean compared to the filth in San Francsco. I am a transplant from the Bay Area so please, no arguing with me. New York City is clean for it's massively dense population.

And just for your information, there are about 4 million people in Manhattan on any given weekday. What's Chicago's weekday population? 800,000 people and 200,000 cows? I wouldn't be surprised since Chicago's population has all but vanished.

Oh, and Julia (if you are't a troll), I don't think you're a city person at all. Most large cities you will run across will be somewhat dirty.

Look somewhere smaller, like Portland.

maybe everyone is correct...the city just wears me down..

Going to San Fran except in the Spring really depresses me. Overcast, homeless, police look like they are in the Dragnet show.

"I live in NYC and lived in San Francisco and have to laugh and laugh and laugh at those who think it's cleaner. It's a stunningly beautiful city in many. many places, but it also has a deep and abiding squalid side--and happens to be the place where I've seen the most human feces on the street. "

"And San Francisco is much filthier than New York City. Jesus, do any of you actually get out or does "visiting" a city merely consist of photo touring on flickr.com? San Francisco is beautiful, but it's filthy. Manhattan is clean compared to the filth in San Francsco. I am a transplant from the Bay Area so please, no arguing with me. New York City is clean for it's massively dense population."

True dat... and we're not even talking going to the ghetto or anything. Go to where the big hotels are off market, you can be 100 feet away, and it looks like times square in the 70s. Homeless all over the place, including a LOT of kids. Golden Gate Park looks like Central Park before they cleaned it up. Just some awful, afwul filth in SF, and its not hidden in another part of town.

Stop getting your info from Full House!

Rufus I noticed someone pointed out on the other thread that your new name is quantum huh...

I've noticed you toned down the rhetoric at least...put Chicago in between SF and Boston to try and hide your identity.

I would never live in San Francisco because of the taxes, etc. I'm renting till next Oct/Nov so I have time..thinking florida looking better (I must be crazy)

"And the peninsula hotel or ritz carlton in Chicago is nicer than NYC's best hotels."

ICK - maybe for people who consider Walmart to be good shopping.

weather was terrific, people friendly (no bumping and shoving) but Manhattan is a tough place. You don't realize it until you live somewhere else and then return.

Florida is decent, although I personally prefer los angeles and orange county. Perfect weather, nice beaches, big homes on the onceanfront, and attractive people. Always depressing to come back to NYC after being there.

> You don't realize it until you live somewhere else and then return.

And I go "thank god" every time I come back...

You prefer Orange County for their 'attractive people'? Firstly, I suppose you think ginormous fake breasts are attractive...ok fine...but secondly...that TV show the O.C....it was fake. But I suppose watching things like 'Laguna Beach' might make that place seem like fun.

Nah, I'm basing this upon actually visiting there and hanging out. I like girls who are tanned, work out, and in great shape. It's hard to find those types of women here in the city. But whatever. To each his own, I guess.

I spent some time in orange county. The water is nice, but 99% of the population lives inland and that SUCKS. Its strip mall hell, and its too hot. And boring.

And, have you actually been to OC? Irvine, anyone? To me, its one of the worst places in America.

I like LA personally. But, amusingly, most of my friends from there don't. Its dirty, the traffic is horrible, there isn't much culture (especially relative to city size and diffciulty of living in). I like the weather, for sure, but it gets pretty much cancelled out when you look up. The smog is disgusting. I like the beach, but it is so far from everything else that matters. In terms of living there and working there, there are just too many negative tradeoffs. I'd take a San Diego if you're doing it for weather...

I've lived and traveled in mnay places around the country, and I don't think there is any other city where you can get by without a car. Maybe San Francisco and Boston but I still had a car in them and think you need one. Certainly not Florida or LA.

And I agree with the posters who said San Francisco is dirtier than NYC (I used to live there and travel there 4-6x per year now), and they currently have aggressive panhandlers who chase you down the street and try to scare/intimidate you into giving them money. Being a NYer I don't intimidate easily, but it is an unpleasant reminder of what NYC was like in the 70s and 80s. But other than that SF is still a great city and I get out there as much as I can.

I like parts Florida and parts of LA, between the 2 I'd pick LA (Santa Monica maybe) but you are right the cost of living and state taxes are much much lower in Florida.

Another great place is Santa Fe, though it is a real small city and you might get bored.

I think New Yorkers have it right. It costs more, but we have the Hamptons, some of the nicest beaches in existence, for the summer. Or coney island for the fun. And, really, we have Palm Beach and Miami.

New York is expensive, for sure, but you get the best of both worlds if you do it... including a warm weekend in Florida if you need it. The flight takes about as long as the drive from downtown LA to the beach.

Oh yeah, and don't get me started on Anaheim. ech. Seriously, th ebeach is nice, but most of OC is New Jersey with palm trees.... and less culture.

That's a fair point. The traffic and smog does suck. But I love the laid-back atmosphere of LA. Moreover, as a huge sushi fan, they have some of the best sushi restaurants in the country. And I think their nightlife scene is also the best, with vegas and miami rounding out the top 3.

> I've lived and traveled in mnay places around the country, and I don't think there is any other city
> where you can get by without a car. Maybe San Francisco and Boston but I still had a car in them and
> think you need one. Certainly not Florida or LA.

If you don't have a car in SF, you end up taking a LOT of buses. Makes you really miss the subways. But most folks I knew in SF, young or old, ended up getting cars. The ability to walk neighborhood to neighborhood is not great. And cabs, not good at all. It seems like a lot of SF folks try it, but end up with cars.

Boston also has major problems. T is just limited. Some neighborhoods are doable, including many of the newer downtown gentrification (South End) but many are not. And many of the places you might need to go just aren't that accessible.

Think about Manhattan... pretty much 95% of it south of 96th is subway accessible within a few blocks. Almost all restaurants, museums, whatever.

Other cities, its more like 50% or less...

Seattle, or either of the Portlands. I left for Seattle for four years, absolutely loved it but couldn't wait to come back to New York. I don't drive, and Seattle was fine.

Florida, unless on vacation (and perhaps even then), could kill one's soul.

Who cares if there are tons of fakely attractive people anywhere? Granted, some of the states with top obesity percentages might be a drag on one's mood, but what's with this preoccupation with appearance? Grow up, we're not in high school anymore.

SF is not a great place for public transit. The cabs are unbelievably expensive since there's a more limited supply. Boston is a nice city, but the T doesn't run in the wee hours and are limited in service.

I disagree about 95% of Manhattan south of 96th street being subway accessible. If you live in UES east of 2nd avenue or so, hiking to the nearest subway stop is a pain in the ass. Also, those on the far west side, especially west 30's and 40's, are not particularly close either.

If you consider 5 blocks from the subway "not accessible", then maybe 10% of those cities are...