(1) Terrible timing in general.
(2) Especially terrible timing to try a "luxury" condo.
(3) A doorman in a Brooklyn apartment is silly.
(4) Some of the layouts for one-bedrooms are OK. Nothing special, but nothing weird. Some of the two-bedrooms are awkward.
(5) Location is good and bad. 1st street is good. 4th avenue is bad.
(6) Obviously, prices are absurd. Even with cuts, they are asking OVER $700k for many of the one-bedrooms, and even the "cheaper" one-bedrooms are $650k. Let that settle in for a moment--over $700,000 for a one-bedroom in Brooklyn--one that's maybe a true 750 sf.
Overall, I'll be shocked if they can sell 50% of these at anywhere near the prices that they are asking. Streeteasy claims 5 are in contract and 27 are left. Long way to go.
About a million units at 500 4th avenue ( http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/500-4-avenue-brooklyn ) hit the market last week as well. 4th avenue in brooklyn has got to have near the highest concentration of "luxury" units for sale in a completely undesirable location.
I have lived within a stones throw of the Wyckoff gardens housing project and I feel safer on bond street than I do 4th avenue at night.
If Forte can't sell any units how in the world will these move?
Sure, prices have dropped, but they're still too high. And, to put it mildly, I don't think you'll get many people willing to pay for a "luxury" apartment in Brooklyn just off 4th avenue. The doorman thing alone is just absolutely idiotic.
All of 4th Avenue will eventually be converted to affordable housing by Quinn, bloomberg, etc. No one is going to buy this junk, it's totally against the ethos of anyone who wants to relocate to park slope!
PS I'm serious about predicting the affordable housing thing. No one is going to buy this stuff.
Well Elan (255 1st St) is not not on 4th ave, it is on 1st St., which happens to be a good block.
Elan is zoned for P.S. 321 which is very good. And all the good features of Park Slope are a few blocks away.
Now that the asking prices are low ($660,000) for a 2 bedroom 1055 sq. ft are very good given the quality of construction and the building's features (I have been to Novo and Crest and their contruction and style don't come close to Elan. If enough potential buyers get together, the issue of getting a mortgage would no longer be an issue. This is the time to buy in Park Slope since the prices are so low.
interestedtoo,
You're right. It's not on 4th avenue. It's 10 feet away from 4th avenue
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=255 1st St brooklyn ny&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.231745,63.017578&ie=UTF8&ll=40.675154,-73.982813&spn=0.004239,0.007693&z=17
Look at google street view. This place is in a horrible location. To call anything on 4th avenue "park slope" is disingenuous at best. To spend $660,000 to live next door to McDonald's is INSANE.
Went to The Elan open house on SUnday 5/17. Was, by far, the worst job of "selling" a condo we have ever experienced. But then again, nothing can help this building. The style, design, configuration can all be summed up in one word - awkward. We were shown a 2 bedroom that has had the price dropped over 200k - I don't think another 200k would help. The only plus that this building has to offer is the aroma of a BigMAc and fries wafting up to your windows.
I just looked at the google maps street view for this location, and it's hilarious. If you enter the Elan address it takes you to the McDonalds drive through next door. If you click over it shows the NYFD responding to a call to the Elan construction sight. Not a good sign!
I looked at these about 1 month ago. Yes, they are close to 4th, but at least you are on the "right" side of 4th, in regards to proximity to true PS. It is a nice block. BTW, they are also building right next door, probably more condos.
The developer was VERY willing to negotiate on everything, price, parking, etc. This should seem like a no doye in this market, but there are other developments (ahem, 500 4th) that are quite inflexible. Elan dev. offered to pay cc for one year.
The finishes were nice, not spectacular, and some of the craftmanship left something to be desired. In this market cut corners are unfortunately kind of expected, just to get the work done. Layouts OK, at least the building isn't full of 3 BRs under 1200 sq. ft...I just find that insulting.
I wouldn't put too much weight on the 321 thing. Yes, it is great to be in school district 15, but 321 in particular is already over-crowded, only to become more so with all the 4th ave. development. I will probably be staying in d. 15, and here's hoping both my kids place into the gifted & talented program!
Living next door to Mickey D's? NOT loving it.
Unfortunately, there is a dearth of new condos in true PS, since it is a Brownstone neighborhood. The condo conversions in the true hood are MUCH more expensive per sq. ft. than the Elan. Like a few to several hundred dollars more. Some are walk-up on top of that. Not happening with young kiddies.
I think you can get a unit here for a good price and it isn't in the worst possible location. Sucks to be so far from the park, though. Also, don't know where they're putting that doorman...lobby is tiny.
csmack,
Good points!
The same could be said about the other condos nearby on 4th ave, but they are on 4th ave, and most of them on the wrong side, and there is no way their craftmanship is better than Elan, for example their roof is guaranteed for 25 years by a brand name mfg while the others are for 10 years. And many of the other condos already need major repairs and they are only two or three years old, forcing the condo owners to pay more in CCs.
Yes, the Mickey D's may appear to be an issue, but many top condo buildings in Manhattan that are next door to Mickey D's have no issue getting and keeping condo owners to pay alot, perhaps there is no issue about Mickey D's!
FYI...
Streeteasy reported to me that they have a problem about the units in contract listed at CORCORAN, there are about 5 now.
See any map at NY Times, Trulia, NYC school district map, etc.; they clearly show it is in Prime Park Slope.
http://maps.nycboe.net/index.asp?street=1ST%20ST&addBoro=3&hsenum=255&action=addGeo And the building has a CoO.
First sale at 5B happened; at least 2 other apts. are now occupied since lights are on at night. I live around the corner on 2nd St. and see the place from my windows. Stay away as you will be living in a primarily rental building. The developers have a $14 million loan outstanding and with few sales this building could clearly go into foreclosure. Simply too risky!
i live in the building and am a buyer not renter. there are 4 apts sold already and 3 in contract that i am fully aware of (so 7 total sold). Could be more. Of the 5 apts occupied now, only one is rented. So far, no complaints. The sponsor/developer have been extremely responsive to everything. The appliances, finishes, etc. are exactly what they sold and no corners were cut. With 2 small children, a brownstone although would have been lovely (and we did look!), is just not convenient (maybe when kids are older or for those with no kids). With the parking, storage, elevator and zoning for ps 321 - this works for us!
PPNN: good luck but given the market you are more than likely to be living in a building primarily occupied by renters. The sponsor is actively trying to rent many units at this time. Even if all seven units close you will still have under 25% owner occupancy a disastrous situation that most lenders will not tolerate. The tale will be told by the bank holding the underlying mortgage since they call the shots as to what the developer can and can not do.
Still only one sale per ACRIS and it appears at least 8 units are now being rented based on lights on in the evening. Lender has over $14 million outstanding construction loan so how long will it wait before starting foreclosure? When the fire sale occurs vultures will step in to purchase and rent out at a nice profit.
Unit 5C sold for 775k on 9/10/09, deed recorded 9/22/09. Bank of Smithtown L.I. financed mortgage again just like apt. 5B. So now we have 2 owners out of 32 units!
Here's what I'm thinking:
(1) Terrible timing in general.
(2) Especially terrible timing to try a "luxury" condo.
(3) A doorman in a Brooklyn apartment is silly.
(4) Some of the layouts for one-bedrooms are OK. Nothing special, but nothing weird. Some of the two-bedrooms are awkward.
(5) Location is good and bad. 1st street is good. 4th avenue is bad.
(6) Obviously, prices are absurd. Even with cuts, they are asking OVER $700k for many of the one-bedrooms, and even the "cheaper" one-bedrooms are $650k. Let that settle in for a moment--over $700,000 for a one-bedroom in Brooklyn--one that's maybe a true 750 sf.
Overall, I'll be shocked if they can sell 50% of these at anywhere near the prices that they are asking. Streeteasy claims 5 are in contract and 27 are left. Long way to go.
Thoughts? Predictions?
Conversion to rental within 12 months.
About a million units at 500 4th avenue ( http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/500-4-avenue-brooklyn ) hit the market last week as well. 4th avenue in brooklyn has got to have near the highest concentration of "luxury" units for sale in a completely undesirable location.
I have lived within a stones throw of the Wyckoff gardens housing project and I feel safer on bond street than I do 4th avenue at night.
If Forte can't sell any units how in the world will these move?
The prices dropped, so why don't they sell?
Sure, prices have dropped, but they're still too high. And, to put it mildly, I don't think you'll get many people willing to pay for a "luxury" apartment in Brooklyn just off 4th avenue. The doorman thing alone is just absolutely idiotic.
All of 4th Avenue will eventually be converted to affordable housing by Quinn, bloomberg, etc. No one is going to buy this junk, it's totally against the ethos of anyone who wants to relocate to park slope!
PS I'm serious about predicting the affordable housing thing. No one is going to buy this stuff.
Wow it's nice to see some sanity re: Fourth Avenue. It's just mind-boggling that this stuff ever got built in the first place.
Who would buy there???? I have never comprehended it. Fourth Avenue is noisy, stinky, polluted, unsafe and ugly.
Well Elan (255 1st St) is not not on 4th ave, it is on 1st St., which happens to be a good block.
Elan is zoned for P.S. 321 which is very good. And all the good features of Park Slope are a few blocks away.
Now that the asking prices are low ($660,000) for a 2 bedroom 1055 sq. ft are very good given the quality of construction and the building's features (I have been to Novo and Crest and their contruction and style don't come close to Elan. If enough potential buyers get together, the issue of getting a mortgage would no longer be an issue. This is the time to buy in Park Slope since the prices are so low.
interestedtoo,
You're right. It's not on 4th avenue. It's 10 feet away from 4th avenue
http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=255 1st St brooklyn ny&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=36.231745,63.017578&ie=UTF8&ll=40.675154,-73.982813&spn=0.004239,0.007693&z=17
Look at google street view. This place is in a horrible location. To call anything on 4th avenue "park slope" is disingenuous at best. To spend $660,000 to live next door to McDonald's is INSANE.
Went to The Elan open house on SUnday 5/17. Was, by far, the worst job of "selling" a condo we have ever experienced. But then again, nothing can help this building. The style, design, configuration can all be summed up in one word - awkward. We were shown a 2 bedroom that has had the price dropped over 200k - I don't think another 200k would help. The only plus that this building has to offer is the aroma of a BigMAc and fries wafting up to your windows.
I just looked at the google maps street view for this location, and it's hilarious. If you enter the Elan address it takes you to the McDonalds drive through next door. If you click over it shows the NYFD responding to a call to the Elan construction sight. Not a good sign!
FYI, see pictures
http://www.flickr.com/photos/elif-portfolio/sets/72157605126804463/
http://www.elanparkslope.com/
Interestedtoo, thanks for the slide show. I can't stand those HVAC units in the windows for AC and heating.
It is convenient to that good car wash place across 4th ave.
I think the equivalent location for a new development in Manhattan is 29th Madison Park.
Just curious - why is it silly to have a doorman in brooklyn? (not snarky ... just wondering)
I looked at these about 1 month ago. Yes, they are close to 4th, but at least you are on the "right" side of 4th, in regards to proximity to true PS. It is a nice block. BTW, they are also building right next door, probably more condos.
The developer was VERY willing to negotiate on everything, price, parking, etc. This should seem like a no doye in this market, but there are other developments (ahem, 500 4th) that are quite inflexible. Elan dev. offered to pay cc for one year.
The finishes were nice, not spectacular, and some of the craftmanship left something to be desired. In this market cut corners are unfortunately kind of expected, just to get the work done. Layouts OK, at least the building isn't full of 3 BRs under 1200 sq. ft...I just find that insulting.
I wouldn't put too much weight on the 321 thing. Yes, it is great to be in school district 15, but 321 in particular is already over-crowded, only to become more so with all the 4th ave. development. I will probably be staying in d. 15, and here's hoping both my kids place into the gifted & talented program!
Living next door to Mickey D's? NOT loving it.
Unfortunately, there is a dearth of new condos in true PS, since it is a Brownstone neighborhood. The condo conversions in the true hood are MUCH more expensive per sq. ft. than the Elan. Like a few to several hundred dollars more. Some are walk-up on top of that. Not happening with young kiddies.
I think you can get a unit here for a good price and it isn't in the worst possible location. Sucks to be so far from the park, though. Also, don't know where they're putting that doorman...lobby is tiny.
csmack,
Good points!
The same could be said about the other condos nearby on 4th ave, but they are on 4th ave, and most of them on the wrong side, and there is no way their craftmanship is better than Elan, for example their roof is guaranteed for 25 years by a brand name mfg while the others are for 10 years. And many of the other condos already need major repairs and they are only two or three years old, forcing the condo owners to pay more in CCs.
Yes, the Mickey D's may appear to be an issue, but many top condo buildings in Manhattan that are next door to Mickey D's have no issue getting and keeping condo owners to pay alot, perhaps there is no issue about Mickey D's!
This building isn't in Park Slope, it's in Gowanus.
Slope11217: "(3) A doorman in a Brooklyn apartment is silly. "
Why?
StreetEasy doesnt show any apartments in contract. Did it already go rental? Has anyone moved in yet? What's the deal with this building?
Sincerely,
Ronald McDonald
FYI...
Streeteasy reported to me that they have a problem about the units in contract listed at CORCORAN, there are about 5 now.
See any map at NY Times, Trulia, NYC school district map, etc.; they clearly show it is in Prime Park Slope.
http://maps.nycboe.net/index.asp?street=1ST%20ST&addBoro=3&hsenum=255&action=addGeo
And the building has a CoO.
First sale at 5B happened; at least 2 other apts. are now occupied since lights are on at night. I live around the corner on 2nd St. and see the place from my windows. Stay away as you will be living in a primarily rental building. The developers have a $14 million loan outstanding and with few sales this building could clearly go into foreclosure. Simply too risky!
i live in the building and am a buyer not renter. there are 4 apts sold already and 3 in contract that i am fully aware of (so 7 total sold). Could be more. Of the 5 apts occupied now, only one is rented. So far, no complaints. The sponsor/developer have been extremely responsive to everything. The appliances, finishes, etc. are exactly what they sold and no corners were cut. With 2 small children, a brownstone although would have been lovely (and we did look!), is just not convenient (maybe when kids are older or for those with no kids). With the parking, storage, elevator and zoning for ps 321 - this works for us!
PPNN: good luck but given the market you are more than likely to be living in a building primarily occupied by renters. The sponsor is actively trying to rent many units at this time. Even if all seven units close you will still have under 25% owner occupancy a disastrous situation that most lenders will not tolerate. The tale will be told by the bank holding the underlying mortgage since they call the shots as to what the developer can and can not do.
27% price cut at Elan yesterday.
Lipstick on a pig. I would think 50% would have been more realistic.
50% off still wouldn't be enough off for me.
Still only one sale per ACRIS and it appears at least 8 units are now being rented based on lights on in the evening. Lender has over $14 million outstanding construction loan so how long will it wait before starting foreclosure? When the fire sale occurs vultures will step in to purchase and rent out at a nice profit.
Unit 5C sold for 775k on 9/10/09, deed recorded 9/22/09. Bank of Smithtown L.I. financed mortgage again just like apt. 5B. So now we have 2 owners out of 32 units!