Classic Broker Story on this apartment. When doing my typical search (Upper East/Upper West, 1bed/2conv, 350-550K), this building would always pop up. However, being a land lease building, it has crazy maintenance. However, my search brought me to this apartment. Spacious 1bed for $399K and a maintenance of $1300. Pretty reasonable, no? Nowhere in the ad does it mention that it's only $1300... [more]
Classic Broker Story on this apartment. When doing my typical search (Upper East/Upper West, 1bed/2conv, 350-550K), this building would always pop up. However, being a land lease building, it has crazy maintenance.
However, my search brought me to this apartment. Spacious 1bed for $399K and a maintenance of $1300. Pretty reasonable, no? Nowhere in the ad does it mention that it's only $1300 because the seller is kicking in $2000 a month for a year. When the broker started explaining all of this, everyone at the open house just stopped. Everyone thought the same as us, that the maintenance was a legit $1300. She then went on to explain that the building was trying to buy the land so the maintenance would go down. We walked right out. So did a few other people.
Now maybe somewhere on the ad it mentions the landlease situation. If so, I apologize. However, most people reading this ad has the right to assume it was a $399K apartment with a $1300 maintenance.
Another broker trick...
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Response by jmkeenan
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 178
Member since: Jan 2009
Just checked elliman and the maint. is listed at 1300 on their site. Where's the CIO to explain this one.
Thanks for posting reddog, that's the most outrageous thing I've heard so far.
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Response by crescent22
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 953
Member since: Apr 2008
Do people just gloss over the reality that you eat exhaust from all the cars zipping by off the Queensboro Bridge?
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Response by patient09
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 1571
Member since: Nov 2008
did the broker happen to mention that they made a mistake on the literature regarding the sq ft. That it is really 800-825, not the 925 as published?
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Response by reddog2669
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 121
Member since: May 2007
Crescent, We did consider this. Beggers can't be choosers. At my budget/location ($350K-$550K, UES, UWS), there will always be drawbacks.
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Response by jmkeenan
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 178
Member since: Jan 2009
Building is fascinating, you can buy 16 rent stabilized units! and you can buy an apartment for 200k with a rent stabilized tenant who pays 1200/mo. Maint on the apt is 3 grand. Wait, what?
Reddog - it's OK not to buy, that's why we have SE -- it's a support group for the non-buyers.
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Response by reddog2669
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 121
Member since: May 2007
jmk, trust me I am on this site way too much for my health! I will end up buying sometime at the end of this year or early next year. hoping low end prices go down a little more. one year ago i thought there was no chance of buying in the UES (we had Inwood pegged as our future home). but now it looks like the UES is possible. Thank you Streeteasy and Urbandigs for starting my new addiction!
Is funny there is a posting on this building. I did a search on SE for new listings and this one popped up. When I first saw the price and maint, I got excited. But when I looked at other units in the building and saw the maint in the 3,000 range, I knew the broker must have it wrong on the website. The monthly maint for the PH is almost a BMW.
I think for the 1 bedroom, the price should drop to below 100,000 to offset the high maint.
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Response by crescent22
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 953
Member since: Apr 2008
Unless the building has massive reserves already with which to pay for the land, a statement about hopes to buy the land could be seen as even more scary for future maintenance. The money has to come from somewhere, and to suggest the landowner has some leverage is stating the obvious.
What does a Jr 4 UES go for now? $3200 tops? One would have to assume 65% deductibilty of maintenance, take mortgage interest post-tax, and a mortgage of below $200,000 to get to a $3200 buy-rent parity. We're forgetting that many people don't want to use post-tax deductions in the calculations. That's a sale price of $270,000 including the $24,000 1-yr maintenance subsidy.
BTW, I wouldn't take the deal for the 1-yr maintenance with the alternative of paying less principal for the unit. Assuming an all-else-equal $24,000 higher sales price with the subsidy, the seller gets to avoid any capital gains if he does the right thing with where he lives and rolling it over to a new place while the buyer has a $24,000 higher purchase price to eat into future tax-free capital gains. This is not offset by maintenance deductibility.
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Response by Jerkstore
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 474
Member since: Feb 2007
This has been episode 3,721,912 in the continuing saga: Scum Lying Brokers. Tune in next week - no, in like three minutes - for the next stomach-churning installment.
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Response by reddog2669
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 121
Member since: May 2007
It was shady. All they had to do was disclose this on the website. There might be someone with a lot of money who will buy the place for a discount, see the building buy the land (hence the maintenece goes down) and get themselves a good deal. You had to be there to see the looks on everyone's face as she explianed everything. It was priceless!
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Response by crescent22
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 953
Member since: Apr 2008
> There might be someone with a lot of money who will buy the place for a discount, see the building buy the land (hence the maintenece goes down)
Depends where the money comes from the buy the land. If not from existing reserves, then it comes from maintenance.
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Response by nyc10022
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 9868
Member since: Aug 2008
$3300. Holy moses. Thats basically rent on a place like this.
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Response by jmkeenan
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 178
Member since: Jan 2009
I think you might be able to rent an equivalent for less than 3300 -- given the location.
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Response by jimstreeteasy
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 1967
Member since: Oct 2008
I am hard pressed to see why anyone would buy in this building, except maybe for zero, because you can rent the same unit for roughly maint. costs without incurring a perpetual liability. My what fools bought into this place. Geez.
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Response by jmkeenan
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 178
Member since: Jan 2009
Jim -- read up the UD piece. I agree they were foolish, but most of them had no idea what was going to happen with the land lease in 2008 when they bought.
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Response by jasonkyle
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 891
Member since: Sep 2008
fixed (partially) on the listing due to complaints
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Response by reddog2669
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 121
Member since: May 2007
Ha, not a complete fix. Hopefully people get the full story before buying. On a side note, I love how I get treated at an open house when I dress like a scumbag. The broker goes right to the more well-to-do looking people and leaves me alone!
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Response by crescent22
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 953
Member since: Apr 2008
You should leave on the sign-in-sheet "Scumbag dresser" and see how often you get a follow-up.
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Response by hofo
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 453
Member since: Sep 2008
I agree with reddog. I usually wear a baseball cap and sneakers so they look at me like why are you here? Is the freaking weekend!
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Response by jasonkyle
almost 17 years ago
Posts: 891
Member since: Sep 2008
i dress slobbily and act kind of rude and they all seem to be up my ass
Just checked elliman and the maint. is listed at 1300 on their site. Where's the CIO to explain this one.
Thanks for posting reddog, that's the most outrageous thing I've heard so far.
Do people just gloss over the reality that you eat exhaust from all the cars zipping by off the Queensboro Bridge?
did the broker happen to mention that they made a mistake on the literature regarding the sq ft. That it is really 800-825, not the 925 as published?
Crescent, We did consider this. Beggers can't be choosers. At my budget/location ($350K-$550K, UES, UWS), there will always be drawbacks.
Building is fascinating, you can buy 16 rent stabilized units! and you can buy an apartment for 200k with a rent stabilized tenant who pays 1200/mo. Maint on the apt is 3 grand. Wait, what?
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/387548-coop-301-east-63rd-street-lenox-hill-new-york
Reddog - it's OK not to buy, that's why we have SE -- it's a support group for the non-buyers.
jmk, trust me I am on this site way too much for my health! I will end up buying sometime at the end of this year or early next year. hoping low end prices go down a little more. one year ago i thought there was no chance of buying in the UES (we had Inwood pegged as our future home). but now it looks like the UES is possible. Thank you Streeteasy and Urbandigs for starting my new addiction!
UD was onto this building back in late 2008
Here's Christine's piece:
http://www.urbandigs.com/2008/12/landleases_when_worse_than_the.html
Is funny there is a posting on this building. I did a search on SE for new listings and this one popped up. When I first saw the price and maint, I got excited. But when I looked at other units in the building and saw the maint in the 3,000 range, I knew the broker must have it wrong on the website. The monthly maint for the PH is almost a BMW.
I think for the 1 bedroom, the price should drop to below 100,000 to offset the high maint.
Unless the building has massive reserves already with which to pay for the land, a statement about hopes to buy the land could be seen as even more scary for future maintenance. The money has to come from somewhere, and to suggest the landowner has some leverage is stating the obvious.
What does a Jr 4 UES go for now? $3200 tops? One would have to assume 65% deductibilty of maintenance, take mortgage interest post-tax, and a mortgage of below $200,000 to get to a $3200 buy-rent parity. We're forgetting that many people don't want to use post-tax deductions in the calculations. That's a sale price of $270,000 including the $24,000 1-yr maintenance subsidy.
BTW, I wouldn't take the deal for the 1-yr maintenance with the alternative of paying less principal for the unit. Assuming an all-else-equal $24,000 higher sales price with the subsidy, the seller gets to avoid any capital gains if he does the right thing with where he lives and rolling it over to a new place while the buyer has a $24,000 higher purchase price to eat into future tax-free capital gains. This is not offset by maintenance deductibility.
This has been episode 3,721,912 in the continuing saga: Scum Lying Brokers. Tune in next week - no, in like three minutes - for the next stomach-churning installment.
It was shady. All they had to do was disclose this on the website. There might be someone with a lot of money who will buy the place for a discount, see the building buy the land (hence the maintenece goes down) and get themselves a good deal. You had to be there to see the looks on everyone's face as she explianed everything. It was priceless!
> There might be someone with a lot of money who will buy the place for a discount, see the building buy the land (hence the maintenece goes down)
Depends where the money comes from the buy the land. If not from existing reserves, then it comes from maintenance.
$3300. Holy moses. Thats basically rent on a place like this.
I think you might be able to rent an equivalent for less than 3300 -- given the location.
I am hard pressed to see why anyone would buy in this building, except maybe for zero, because you can rent the same unit for roughly maint. costs without incurring a perpetual liability. My what fools bought into this place. Geez.
Jim -- read up the UD piece. I agree they were foolish, but most of them had no idea what was going to happen with the land lease in 2008 when they bought.
fixed (partially) on the listing due to complaints
Ha, not a complete fix. Hopefully people get the full story before buying. On a side note, I love how I get treated at an open house when I dress like a scumbag. The broker goes right to the more well-to-do looking people and leaves me alone!
You should leave on the sign-in-sheet "Scumbag dresser" and see how often you get a follow-up.
I agree with reddog. I usually wear a baseball cap and sneakers so they look at me like why are you here? Is the freaking weekend!
i dress slobbily and act kind of rude and they all seem to be up my ass