The 505

anotherguy: about 7 weeks ago

Long ago in this thread, I had mentioned that the 505's neighborhood (area west of 10th Avenue) had some barriers to long term redevelopment/gentrification.

http://www.dec.ny.gov/enb2004/20040630/not2.html

http://www.apartmentratings.com/rate/NY-New-York-River-Place-Apartments-416472.html [first paragraph of review discusses the Silverstein building's neighboring tower, which was put up in 2000]

In particular, the area was historically industrial, with lots of car dealerships and auto body places (like on 48th St., and 47th St.). I really don't see the area getting better fast, because anyone who sinks money into it also has to deal with the environmental cleanup. I also noted that it was no coincidence that the 505 and Clinton West (one block to the south) were being built over railroad tracks - - because they are not disturbing much land to do so. The cleanup issues make easier tear-downs more difficult.

I just happened to come across some mentions of the new Silver Towers (Larry Silverstein, the WTC site owner) at 11th Ave and 42nd St. The links discuss the brownfield cleanup aspects that I think are typical of the area.

The better I get to know the area, the stronger the feeling I get that it's going to struggle to get critical mass for a long time. Again, there's a good reason that only the recent boom generated enough land demand to result in the new buildings that have gone up there.

kelee: about 8 weeks ago

hello. please join us in facebook!

ilovenyc: about 8 weeks ago

Hi everyone thank you for this post it was very helpful.. my boyfriend and I have a one bedroom on the 5th floor in the South building. Cant wait to meet our future neighbors!

nyc212: about 9 weeks ago

This is off topic, but I visited 38Ninth a while back. It was the weirdest experience, and I am not surprised that they didn't sell.

It was as though they weren't even trying to sell ffrom the get go. First off, the bldg. looked like ones from the 80s, which I thought was odd, given that virtually all of the new constructions in the City show some sort of attempt to make it look fashionable... Also, the layouts were such cookie cutters--with low ceilings.

Plus, there is no doorman--in that up-and-coming neighborhood, which made me nervous. Also, the bldg had ABSOLUTELY NO amenities. None. In addition, from what the sales guy said, I figured out that the bldg was to be mixed-income, and some of the larger units had been reserved for such tenants. Since he mentioned "larger units," I immediately thought larger families...more kids...a mess...noise...more strollers...etc.

As though that weren't bad enough, the sales agent was so disorganized--seeming working in an office with a bunch of unprofessional people. When you call the sales office, you don't want to feel like you are calling the DMV...

I know the geographic location is highly convenient--but the surrounding area was still too up-and-coming, and the location alone couldn't compensate for the rest of the problems. When the neighborhood gets cleaned up a little, maybe someone would consider buying.

nyc212: about 9 weeks ago

This is off topic, but I visited 38Ninth a while back. It was the weirdest experience, and I am not surprised that they didn't sell.

airahcaz: about 9 weeks ago

seems like 38th and 9th changed to rentals, they couldn't sell?

hkinterested: about 3 months ago

That's just it. The 505 stands alone right now, hopefully more like it in the area will come. The 8th Avenue projects are just too over-the-top with full amenities, not appealable for the full time resident who wants to make HK their home (as opposed to their hotel!). The others are all the rentals (and some condos) popping up on 42nd street -- also not good comparisons. They are more like their sisters on 8th Avenue. There are a few random projects like 502 9th Avenue that may try to be like the 505, but are either just in the wrong area, built the wrong way (umm...can we say take a look at our neighbors at 517 W 46th Street), or too small that they don't provide the amenities like the 505 (without going over-the-top like 8th Avenue). I think the 505 has done a good job building a HOME.

hrdnitlr: about 3 months ago

i take your point, so maybe consider the 502 to be the ultra-low end of the area. i bring it up because earlier in this board (way back a few months) there was some discussion about how the 8th Avenue high-rises (the Link, the Platinum) were bad comps because they were on avenues and were high rises (far less desirable to some buyers), even though they were fairly close locations.

justy26: about 3 months ago

i agree with hk. hard to compare with a building that has no doorman.

hkinterested: about 3 months ago

Not a decent comp at all. No amenities and the place is located right across the street from the Lincoln Tunnel and Port Authority. There is no way this can be a comparison at all.

hrdnitlr: about 3 months ago

Here's a decent comp, fairly new to the market - - is much further south and east, traffic and noise probably worse than the 505, but location is closer to subway, etc.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/502-9-avenue-new_york

gayinhk: about 3 months ago

I thought it was July '09... still haven't locked in a mortgage...

airahcaz: about 3 months ago

Even though we can pass by and see the outside, I suppose there is no real way to assess the progress.

So is everyone planning for June of 09, or think earlier or later?

kelee: about 4 months ago

hello j_nyc. i have a 4th fl 1bedroom facing garden reserved. i've requested to join your group on the facebook. can't wait to meet all of you in summer 2009!

j_nyc: about 4 months ago

Let me know if anyone hasn't been able to access the site.

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20786127355&refurl=http%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fs.php%3Fq%3Dthe505hk%26init%3Dq

I'll have a few folks from Halstead on to help extend the group to other owners and answer questions. If you're in contract in the 505, and aren't on facebook, I strongly recommend creating an account in order to stay current on the building.

gayinhk: about 4 months ago

Just click on the link above and then click the link to request joining the group - at that point I think Jon will approve you...

hkinterested: about 4 months ago

So how do I get invited to the group. Sounds like a lot of ground floor with private space owners -- me too. Nice to meet you neighbors! And guy4rent....why only guys for backyard parties...not interested in letting the girls in?

j_nyc: about 4 months ago

I initially created it as part of the "New York, NY" network, but as not everyone is part of that network I started from scratch.

If this doesn't work let me know and I'll friend you and add you as a member. Thanks

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=20786127355&refurl=http%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fs.php%3Fq%3Dthe505hk%26init%3Dq

airahcaz: about 4 months ago

Me either - so Jon I added you as a friend on Facebook. Although, I can't access Facebook from work.

buddyparker: about 4 months ago

Still doesn't work for me with that one word. When I click on the link you gave it works, but cant get to it through my profile.

j_nyc: about 4 months ago

hmmm, one word "the505hk" seems to work for me when searching..

not sure if the full link will work...
http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=63196280429&refurl=http%2F%2Fwww.facebook.com%2Fs.php%3Fq%3Dthe505hk%26init%3Dq

any luck?

buddyparker: about 4 months ago

gayinhk that sounds like a great idea! Looking forward to knowing you all as well. Sounds like a friendly group!

gayinhk: about 4 months ago

Once we have the group set up, maybe we could send an e-mail to The 505 sales office and since they have the e-mail contact of all the buyers so far, maybe they could send out an e-mail to everyone letting them know of the group so others can join in too... I'm sure not all the buyers are aware of streeteasy...

gayinhk: about 4 months ago

I can't find it either. I would go ahead and create a new one, but j_nyc, since you've already created something let's see if we can get this one working. I'm looking forward to knowing you all too!

buddyparker: about 4 months ago

I cant find it either! Tried all combinations. Guy4rent I think we might be your neighbor. Also on ground floor with a big garden. jnyc let us know how to join so we can all chat. FUN:)

airahcaz: about 4 months ago

I cannot find the505hk on Facebook

guy4rent: about 4 months ago

I have unit on ground floor with garden. I look foward to meeting my guy neighbors for outdoor parties next summer.

j_nyc: about 4 months ago

So, I took matters into my own hands. Anyone want to meet their new neighbors? Search the505hk on facebook at join the group. Tell me some detail about the front cover of the offering plan so we can help keep the group legitimate future tenants. Looking forward to meeting everyone.

gayinhk: about 4 months ago

j_nyc - I have a unit on the 5th floor of the South building too :-)

anotherguy: about 4 months ago

i mean, i don't have a crystal ball, but i think the key sign of improvement will be the quality of the 10th avenue retail, as it comes up. now, the west side of 10th avenue has virtually no retail-suitable property at all between 48th to roughly 54th, but the east side is solid low-rise with retail store-fronts the whole way from 42nd to 57th. to really improve the livability of the area, there needs to be some serious upgrading of what's available there. it's getting slowly better, but i have no sense of whether it'll get to critical mass in a hurry, or will just fill in bit by bit ... my sense is that it hasn't changed a whole lot over the past five years, but it should speed up at least somewhat.

and i think justy26 has it just right, as the ideal buyer - - young, doesn't mind the extra avenue and a half walk to the subway, totally comfortable with it staying roughly as-is for up to 5 years - - that seems realistic to me. if the economy rights itself promptly (say in the next year), it could be faster

ba294: about 4 months ago

I've invested in Williamsburg back in 2003 and doubled my investment.
I think Hell's kitchen is the next thing. Lots of high rises going up, includinv vu hotel, huge conversion on 46th and 10th, etc.

one avenue up, you have all the trendy restaurants. More coming towards 10th. The area could only go up and I'd say within a year or two at most.

j_nyc: about 4 months ago

Sorry - looks like you folks knew about summer 09 back in spring 08!

j_nyc: about 4 months ago

This seems like a mix of folks that have invested their 10% in the505, potential investors, and random offensive bloggers. Does anyone know of a thread for future 505hk owners? I'd love to subscribe to folks in the first category. I have a unit on the 5th floor south. By the by, recent update from halstead is the new closing date is "summer 09". Thanks

justy26: about 4 months ago

its a better area for young people and gay guys

airahcaz: about 4 months ago

2+ years after closing will be 2011. If the time frame for holding is 3+, is anyone saying that it won't be profitable (hopefully quite significantly) in 2013+?

surdy: about 4 months ago

I completely agree. It will be a long time before it improves. You can only do so much when you have a height restriction on new development.

TwoFacedLiar: about 4 months ago

This truly is a shitty area if there is one in Manhattan.

And buyers have to either be transient or have no plans on having any family.

surdy: about 4 months ago

buddyparker

'How do you know this info? Just curious because we may want to reconsider which unit we have to switch.'

buddyparker
These two units did come back on the market after the initial buyer backed out. Info provided by the sales office.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/154230-condo-505-west-47th-street-clinton-manhattan

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/294763-condo-505-west-47th-street-clinton-manhattan

justy26: about 4 months ago

i agree with you anotherguy. i woulnd't care if it took over 5 yrs to get any better, im young, i can handle an avenue and half walk.

anotherguy: about 4 months ago

One other thing - from another thread on new construction (it's Williamsburg, but some of the dynamics may apply) - it has a good discussion of "pre-construction" vs. "post-construction" dynamics, and how they may be changing. Positively for the 505, it sounds like a fairly high percentage of units are already in contract, giving some stability to the outlook.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/4157-the-edge

TenthStreet
3 days ago
Ingenieur, over the past five years, sales have most certainly peaked before delivery. The idea is that there's a scarce supply of new construction, and that in a rising price environment the risk of buying sight-unseen is amply repaid by appreciation that occurs before closing. In the last several years, buying post-construction has generally meant buying the least desirable units. So yes, a vast majority of new construction buyers have bought sight-unseen over the past several years. Some people think this dynamic will change in today's environment, some don't.

bjw2103
ingenieur, definitely agree with TenthStreet here. In the past couple of years, the play was to get in pre-construction, as losing out on the better layouts and views was perceived as a greater risk than testing out the market and waiting for price drops. Now, that game is quite different - I think most people are quite wary of buying pre-construction. You'll see this pretty much exclusively for the top tier desirable buildings (535 WEA, maybe even some of the Edge, although I'm cringing putting it alongside 535 right now). I recently bought new construction but waited for the building to be nearly 100% finished before committing. I think it's much easier to get away with that now and still come out with the layout/view you want. Don't confuse this with prices dropping - I don't think they are in the better new devs as of now, but there definitely isn't that rush to get in before someone snags the place you want.