If you can demonstrate market movement with comps, please post here.

West81st: about 9 hours ago

Riv_Drive: I saw #11D several months ago, if that's the one you mean. I generally liked it. It had some issues: no views, awkward bathroom access from the third bedroom, a bulky shelf unit that made the living room seem narrower than it really was. The kitchen is nice, but it's only "eat-in" if you have a very narrow table. Still, it's a completely legit 3BR, in very good condition, in a superprime location.

Alpine: Do you get the feeling a reporter has been reading Streeteasy?

alpine292: about 9 hours ago

Here are some comps of sellers taking a loss:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/4846-prices-are-falling-apartments-being-sold-for-less-than-their-purchase-price

Riv_Drive: about 9 hours ago

Did you see this one West81st?

Riv_Drive: about 9 hours ago

I saw that one too. 100K less isn't bad, but I agree...it is a very tough time to be a motivated seller. Unless you can sit and wait or rent it out, you're looking at a loss. These people probably overbid a bit in an aggressive market. Probably got a good deal on the West Coast though, so they could rationalize taking a slight hit.

West81st: about 9 hours ago

#11D is in very nice condition. The problem was simply that they needed to sell; Geiringer dropped the price accordingly.

I'm pretty sure #12D is a legitimate comp. I never saw it, so I can't comment on condition. It was an estate sale, which usually means updating is needed, but that's just a guess.

newbuyer99: about 12 hours ago

Very interesting data point. Assuming the apartment is in similar shape than it was 3 years ago, no appreciation, and even a slight loss compared to 2005 is meaningful.

Is 12D comparable? I guess I am a bit surprised that the appreciation from 10/05 to 2/08 was only 5-6%.

West81st: about 12 hours ago

515 WEA #11D has closed. See http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/closing/750316

Here's the final tally:
--------Recorded Sales----------|--------Previous Listings----------
08/21/2008 #11D $2,050,000 -2.4%| $2,100,000↓ 3 beds 2 baths
02/19/2008 #12D $2,275,000 ---- |
10/20/2005 #11D $2,150,000 ---- |

The sellers were moving back to the west coast, so they had to take what they could get: a nominal loss of about 5% over three years; obviously much worse with inflation and transaction costs.

It's a tough tough time to be a motivated seller.

hsw9001: 7 days ago

I think CPN is a good idea if you have a time horizon of 10 years or more. It has beautiful views of Central Park and the south facing has much better light than CPS. The problem is that it maybe worse before it gets better. Especially if NYS and NYC budget deficits mean less police and more crime. Then there is that issue of the prison on the same street a block or 2 away. The prison may potentially go if CPN becomes better, but that is prob a 25-50 year time horizon.

mazdamp: 8 days ago

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/157-east-72-street-manhattan

10E for sale for $679k

4E sold for $660k in August 2007, so price is flat "at best"

newbuyer99: 8 days ago

Love the views and the terrace of 125 Central Park North. Like the layout too, and the pics look great.

I guess my issue is the location. I used to walk/run/bike through the area quite a bit, and while it didn't feel unsafe, it wasn't pleasant either. Felt working class, which is fine, but not for those prices psf (at least to me). Maybe it's improved since, don't know.

Will be interesting to see what happens to this unit. $200K price drop less than 3 weeks after the prior price drop doesn't bode well.

OnTheMove: 8 days ago

Here's another one in the building I posted about earlier in this thread:

125 Central Park North
Previous listing: 09/26/2006 #PH5 $1,705,568

Current listing (http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/189473-condo-125-central-park-north-central-harlem-manhattan):
03/04/2008 Listed in StreetEasy with Corcoran at $2,495,000
03/10/2008 Price decreased to $2,295,000
08/02/2008 Price decreased to $2,195,000
08/20/2008 Price decreased to $1,995,000

This apartment has a wrap around terrace with stunning views...if I could afford it I would be tempted to make an offer not too far south of the asking price.

zizizi: 9 days ago

07/31/2008 #5G closed up just 18% in 4 years before expenses.

Talk about sucky investments.

newbuyer99: 9 days ago

Streakeasy: If I'm reading this right, 225E. 34th, 3E was on the market for 10 months, and finally sold for 20% off the original asking price. Sale closed 2 weeks ago, and the apartment immediately went on the market for $1.475MM. Forgetting the bull/bear argument for a second, can an apartment that JUST sold for $1.2MM really be worth $1.475 in any market? What am I missing here?

As an aside, I don't believe the listed square footage for a minute, not by a long shot.

newbuyer99: 9 days ago

mazdamp - what a horrible floorplan on 20E. I am kind of surprised at the $650K price, let alone the prices similar units (I am assuming similar floorplans) went for earlier.

kylewest: 9 days ago

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/157675-coop-45-fifth-avenue-greenwich-village-manhattan

Take a look at this insane pricing history. Talk about having no idea what something is worth. This broker was groping in the dark.

11/30/2007 Listed in StreetEasy with Corcoran at $3,600,000
04/03/2008 Price decreased to $3,100,000
05/13/2008 Listing entered contract
05/13/2008 Price decreased to $2,495,000
08/18/2008 Listing no longer available

streakeasy: 9 days ago

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/343216-condo-225-east-34th-street-murray-hill-manhattan

just closed earlier this month:
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/105849-condo-225-east-34th-street-murray-hill-manhattan

for 1.2mm. Looks like a quick flip for a pre-transaction profit of 275k.

mazdamp: 9 days ago

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/171-east-84-street-manhattan

20E for sale for $650,000

closed sales:
10E @ $740,000
8E @ $725,000

ouch!

dmf13: 10 days ago

Very dated lobby for my taste--

West81st: 10 days ago

cliff: At 10 West 66th, #19D timed the market perfectly. #12D and #20D, not so much.

I met Marilyn Korn last week. She's had a great run in that building over the past 25+ years. The party may be ending there for sellers, but she'll do fine. If you like the building, it might be worth getting to know her. For my taste, the ceilings are a little low and the balconies don't excite me - at least on the north side of the building. I think the south-facing ones are nicer.

cliff702: 10 days ago

Here's another big drop in a building/location I covet but can't afford:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/178098-coop-10-west-66th-street-lincoln-square-manhattan

cliff702: 10 days ago

Here's one that also sold for about $200,000 less than asking - but the original asking was $1,100,000.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/179924-coop-66-madison-avenue-midtown-south-manhattan

joepa: 10 days ago

West - I don't disagree. I think the significance lies more in tracing the current mentality of sellers than market movement. Until any of these things close, it's all speculation, though.

West81st: 10 days ago

Sorry, "explicit discounting"

West81st: 10 days ago

Ariel East now appears to be more amenable to expliciting discounting, after holding the line on prices pretty well. It's just one sale, but the most recent closing was discounted 9.3%. I guess there's only so much you can do by throwing in incentives and closing costs.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/152159-condo-2628-broadway-upper-west-side-new-york
Nice apartment, too, if you like that sort of thing. The identical unit, one floor up (#25B) can probably be had for about the same price.

Joepa: I'm not sure asking prices that are higher than previous sales mean very much. I understand that asking prices BELOW prior comps are not completely reliable either, since a buyer might bid more. I would contend, however, that apartments priced below their comps are much more meaningful than those priced above. I guess there's room for argument there.

Clearly, the ideal situation is to compare closed sales, especially if you can get all the terms of both deals. The problem is that the time lag on closings and filings leaves you with stale information, especially for coops.

mazdamp: 10 days ago

right back to where it was in January 2007:

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/329482-condo-248-east-31st-street-kips-bay-manhattan?email=true

joepa: 10 days ago

And another from 45 East 89th:

Current Listing Apt 20C ($2,495,000) (2 bed/2 bath)
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/231422-condop-45-east-89th-street-carnegie-hill-manhattan

Sold - Apt 21C ($2,320,000) - 5/24/07 (2 bed/2 bath)
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/35428-condop-45-east-89th-street-carnegie-hill-new-york

Another modest increase in asking over an apartment a floor higher that was sold 15 months ago. Interestingly, I can't figure out why the C line appears to go for a substantial premium over the D line when the sq. footage and views appear nearly identical. Perhaps it the split bedroom layout which is generally more preferable?

joepa: 10 days ago

Some interesting ones from 45 East 89th - Condop on Madison.

Current Listing Apt. 17D ($2,095,000) (2 bed/2bath)
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/320335-condop-45-east-89th-street-carnegie-hill-manhattan

In contract Apt. 27D (last listing $1,995,000) (2 bed/2 bath)
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/215433-condop-45-east-89th-street-carnegie-hill-manhattan

17D is 10 floors lower and has (what appears to be) obstructed views of Central Park, while 27D seems to have clear views all the way to Central Park West, yet 17D is listed $100K over 27D's last listed price. Unless 27D sold for over listing, seems like a modest increase over an apartment that only went to contract 3 months ago. We'll have to wait and see what 27D ultimately sold for to get more clarity on this one, though.

West81st: 10 days ago

1070 Park Avenue.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/building/1070-park-avenue-manhattan
It's a 60%-down building, so the credit crunch shouldn't have much direct effect here.

Date ----- Apt. - Recorded Sales ----| ---- Current/Previous Listings --
ACTIVE ...... # 16A ............................... |↓$3,995,000 3 beds (was $4.495MM)
01/17/2007 # 8A $4,075,000 - 2.9% | ↓$4,195,000 3 beds 3 baths

Not a significant difference yet, but worth watching. Floorplan seems to be the same. Maintenance on #16A is a bit higher, as you would expect for the same footprint on a higher floor. #16A appears to be in excellent condition, and eight floors are worth some money too.

hsw9001: 10 days ago

Re: 311 Amsterdam, I wondered if condos being uncommon at that location that it would tolerate trading at $1200-1300/sq ft. But apparently not. The closest similar comp I know of is 200 W78th #2D http://www.corcoran.com/property/listing.aspx?Region=NYC&listingid=1165581 which closed at $927,500 and at $1000-1100/sq ft. We'll see if 311 Amsterdam will have to take a 20% haircut to sell.

I'd also be curious as to what 112 W72nd #2G closes at. http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/234876-condo-112-west-72nd-street-lincoln-square-manhattan It has a similar 1.2M price tag but has outdoor space (which throws a wrench in trying to accurately figure out price/sq ft).

alpine292: 11 days ago

"Same apartment originally closed in June 2007 (from the sponsor) for $1.475M. Price just chopped to $1.499M."

That's a nice sized loss after the commission and closing costs are factored in. The loss will be at least $50,000.

JohnDoe: 11 days ago

Here is a new condo resale (nice sized 2BR/2BA) in prime UES. Same apartment originally closed in June 2007 (from the sponsor) for $1.475M. Price just chopped to $1.499M.

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/161613-condo-1438-third-avenue-upper-east-side-manhattan

bjw2103: 11 days ago

Here's an interesting comp, ~650 sqft 1BR/1BA, in a decent Soho building (though just west of 6th Ave, so not really the cast-iron section, which is more desirable, but still a good location).

2 Charlton St
15B closed for $740,000 on 06/30/08
2B closed for $605,000 on 10/24/06

Square footage is listed as smaller in 2B (625 vs 700), but I think this may be one of those cases where one broker is inflating the numbers a bit. Layouts look identical, and 15B appears to be a little more updated (kitchen especially). Given the difference in floors and 20 months' time between closings, looks like there's only been very modest appreciation here.

Also, 4H (~800 sqft 2BR/1BA), with appreciation at ~5-6% YOY:
4H closed for $805,000 on 08/07/08
4H closed for $725,000 on 04/09/06

West81st: 11 days ago

JM / jd: I agree on the layout.

BTW, I should have written 75th Street, not 76th. I think the corresponding corner at 76th is even creepier, since most of the people who spend the night there are dead.

JuiceMan: 11 days ago

I haven't seen it in person, but it looks like the space could be improved without the bedroom by the kitchen. A dining room, eat in kitchen, or larger living area would have been a better use of that space.

joedavis: 11 days ago

I was one of the crowd at 311 amsterdam on the 1st open house. attractively furnished, but a small living room, no dining space whatsoever and as West81 said a mediocre no doorman building on a noisy intersection. Given the sq ft and the layout it is no surprise that it is not spoken for even though it is attractively redone. At $995k it may indeed fly, but even there I am doubtful -- a similar ground floor unit on 96th street sat on streeteasy for almost a year with multiple realtors and also FSBO

West81st: 11 days ago

hsw9001 - I haven't seen that one. It looks like it's only about 1000 square feet, the layout looks terrible, and the building is nothing special. A 3BR/2BA under $1.25MM on West 76th is sure to draw a crowd, but that doesn't mean anyone will buy it when they see that it's actually a smallish 2BR. BTW, if I were the BHS broker for that apartment, I'd offer the downstairs neighbor - whose mess is usually visible from street level - some nice window treatments and a couple of visits from a cleaning service.

hsw9001: 11 days ago

Thanks for your input West81st. Responded in that thread.

Now on another note, I am surprised that 311 Amterdam is still available.
http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/sale/266410-coop-311-amsterdam-avenue-upper-west-side-manhattan

There was so much traffic the first open house I thought that it would be gone by now. 1 year ago that kind of traffic would have led to a bidding war and gone to contract in 2 wks. Perhaps it is the sign of the times or maybe there is something else potential purchasers found objectionable.

EddieWilson: 12 days ago

You are right... sorry about that. Once I realized what it was, I stopped responding to it, and just reported it as spam...

joedavis: 12 days ago

Eddie -- you do not need to respond to it on each of 50 threads either...

EddieWilson: 12 days ago

Or at least not post it on 50 different threads...

This is definitely one of the better threads, and you owe W81 an apology for trying to hijack it.