Are people walking away from deposits?

There were a couple of threads on this topic--you might want to do a search.

sometimes better to take a $10k deposit loss rather than buy something worth $50k or $100k less than the price.

yup, we are walking away from our 10% deposit of 120k. it's just not worth it to be financially strapped to such a large investment when the market seems to be heading south.

>>> sometimes better to take a $10k deposit loss rather than buy something worth $50k or $100k less than the price.

exactly, but multiply by 10x

Except that your numbers don't make sense. Deposits are typically 10%. Take a 10k loss now to prevent a 100k loss in the future assumes 100% price reduction. As much as I'd love to own the entire 15 CPW building for just the cash I have in my pocket right now, that's not very likely, now is it?

10x the deposit tech_guy. or do you need that statement to be parsed and compiled?

kspeak meant 10x the deposit, not 10x the loss? That's not exactly obvious from what he chose to quote and what he said. Regardless, assume that is what was meant: 100k loss now to avoid a 50k or 100k loss later? Hardly a smart decision, which makes it even less likely that this is what kspeak meant.

if(tech_guy.isSpeaking())
{
Thread.Sleep(10000000000000000000000000);
}

I think kspeak is female....I'm just saying...

Its music to my ears to see the bears unable to refute my points, and instead resort to (rather amusing) insults. Well formed Java at least - you should tutor petrfitz. He needs it. But you're overflowing the int variable. Sleep(1 << 31) would have been smarter :)

Thanks waverly - apologies to kspeak for the gender confusion.

No worries tech_guy...

"Except that your numbers don't make sense. Deposits are typically 10%. Take a 10k loss now to prevent a 100k loss in the future assumes 100% price reduction. As much as I'd love to own the entire 15 CPW building for just the cash I have in my pocket right now, that's not very likely, now is it?"

This is simply incorrect, in several ways. Your deposit % doesn't factor into the loss. If you buy something on margin and it declines $50k, you lost 50k, no matter how much margin it is (or if no margin).

Now, you PERCENTAGE loss is worse, of course, but thats not what we're talking about.
But did you just assume apartments cost $100k?

Hell, if you only put down 10%, and the price goes down 10%, you just managed to lose 100% of your capital.

If we want to move to real life terms, someone would be smart to spend an extra $1k in rent per month this year to wait out prices if they move down. And, since the data says 10% down already, buying even a cheaper $600k apartment for $550k easily makes up for the rent "loss".

The bigger point is, you ignored capital loss in your breakeven analysis. You confused cash flow positive with profitable. A big mistake.

Very good, nyc10022. Check out the thread on market movement for evidence of this. The most recent one: A 2 bedroom condo in Yorkville bought for 1.25 in January, now on the market for 899k. That means even if they got their asking price today they would be facing a 351k loss.

If they made a 10% deposit, that would have been 125k. Instead, they are out 351k and climbing. Walking away is not such a bad plan.

Thanks guys! I foolishly signed a contract for an apartment without selling my current one. I am uncomfortable holding 2 mortgages and 2 maintenances. Trying to decide if I should cut my losses and walk away from the deposit. How much lower is this market going to go?

"Very good, nyc10022. Check out the thread on market movement for evidence of this. The most recent one: A 2 bedroom condo in Yorkville bought for 1.25 in January, now on the market for 899k. That means even if they got their asking price today they would be facing a 351k loss."

Absolutely.

Just because you can pay your loss over time doesn't mean it would be smarter to take the smaller deposit loss...

NYC 10022 - What do you mean?

Say you put down 5% on a condo.

And the market then declines 10%.

Assuming there is no cash issue (to put down on the next apartment) you are better off taking the 5% loss instead of the 10% loss (which you get when you buy no matter how much of a mortgage you have). Borrowing from the bank doesn't change anything... 100% of the loss is yours.

Thanks. So if I signed a contract for an apartment without selling my current one, and am uncomfortable holding 2 mortgages and 2 maintenances in a declining market. Trying to decide if I should cut my losses and walk away from the deposit. How much lower will things get?

hotproperty:

the question is not how much lower things will get--it's how much lower they may get. no one knows for sure what the market will do. but look at historic real estate downturns in nyc and you will see how bad it can get. prices could decline thirty percent and stay there for a long time, or they could bottom out at 50%, or 70%. if history is our guide it can get that bad.

how big is your deposit? can you rent out either of the apartments? you have to ask yourself a lot of questions but you should certainly consider walking away.

"Thanks. So if I signed a contract for an apartment without selling my current one, and am uncomfortable holding 2 mortgages and 2 maintenances in a declining market. Trying to decide if I should cut my losses and walk away from the deposit. How much lower will things get?"

My take is this... the mortgages are bad enough, but the worse part is 100% of losses on BOTH apartments are yours to keep. It doesn't matter if you have 5% equity or 95% equity. Assuming you don't foreclose, 100% of each loss is yours.

So, ask yourself if you want to be owning 2 apartments (and be exposed to 2 losses) in this market.

In addition, depending on when you put down the deposit, you might already know you're definitely better off not taking the apartment... if the decline in the price is greater than your deposit. The full loss would be yours if you bought, no matter what the deposit was. So a low deposit probably means walk away.

Overall manhattan median stats say that the market decline 10% from Q2 to Q3. Urban Digs says we're now down 15-18% based on the transaction he's seeing, and thats with a 75% decline in volume. I read that all to say, we're down 20% minimum by the end of the year. As for how low it will go, no one knows for sure. But if the range is at best 20% down and worst 50% or 70% down, thats not a bet I want to double down on.

Thanks. It's not new construction and the decline in price is not more than my 10% deposit YET. But you are right, I don't want to expose myself on the value of 2 apartments declining. So what to do? 50 - 70% down?

hotproperty,

how do you know the decline isn't more than your 10% deposit yet? you really think you could sell your apartment today and get 90% of what you paid for it? given what i see in the market i find that unlikely.

Happyrenter, of course you are correct, but Noah says I didn't overpay. But I don't want to buy it and then get stuck there. Do you know if other buyers are walking away from stuff other than in new buildings?

Jay Walkin- was yours a new construction? Anybody else, know of people walking away from deposits?

I am walking away from a deposit at the District on 60 Ann (new construction). Builder Leviev is in financial difficulty, saw a couple of other Street Easy posters (incl Jay W) walking away from their deposit at District. My price was $1,000 sf, Leviev just cut prices on remaining units at 20 Pine by 25% which brings price to about $700 sf. I have lost 10% but I saved myself another 20% of depreciation. A no brainer.

"This is simply incorrect, in several ways. Your deposit % doesn't factor into the loss. If you buy something on margin and it declines $50k, you lost 50k, no matter how much margin it is (or if no margin).

Now, you PERCENTAGE loss is worse, of course, but thats not what we're talking about.
But did you just assume apartments cost $100k?"

You *really* shouldn't bother trying to beat me on math. I'm using your numbers, as absurd as they are: 10k loss on deposit now, which is typically 10% of the purchase price. That implies the purchase price is 100k (your numbers, not mine). You then say you may lose 50k or 100k. That's not a leverage issue. That's a nuclear bomb just hit NYC and literally destroyed 100% of the value of your property issue.

?
If a $1 million apartment (100K deposit) - falls 25% -- better to walk now. $850K in new price of $750K plus old deposit of sunk costs to buy in later better than $1 million.

tech guy, I think that the person's original comment about 10k was a mistake ... they probably meant to say 10% which is the standard downpayment on a new construction.

either way, I think that the point that they are trying to make is about negative equity. If you put 10% down (10% of anything) and the value of your place falls by 10% then you no longer have equity in your apartment ... so, if you tried to sell it the next day you would lose the 10% that you put in, if it declined 20% then you would owe the bank another 10% on top of the 10% that you already paid (so, if it was a $200,000 apartment you would owe the bank $20,000 plus you would have already lost the $20,000 that you already put in)...anyhow, that is what I think NYC1022's point is.

Now, there is more to consider than just that. If you are not a speculative buyer and you just want to live in the place, then I would say that you will probably be safe with your 20% down (which most banks require these days anyway) and then just plan not to sell the place for 5 - 10 years. If you are not ready to do that, then you may want to consider walking away.

...and some people will chime in and say that it never makes sense to buy now becasue you could make more money somewhere else, blah, blah. There are plenty of people who have lost more than 50% of their money in the market right now ... just talk to senior execs at AG who had 100% of their 401k in company stock. My only point is that it is pretty hard to say that anything is totally safe right now unless you have it in cash (which is always an option).

My thought is; you buy an apartmnet to live in it, not as an investment. If you are not a landlord then you should not need to worry about your real estate investments. That's what got us here in the first place (everyone thought that they were a real estate investor). Just pick a place that you are willing to live in, pay the price that you think is right and then live in your "home".

hotproperty
1 day ago
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Thanks guys! I foolishly signed a contract for an apartment without selling my current one. I am uncomfortable holding 2 mortgages and 2 maintenances. Trying to decide if I should cut my losses and walk away from the deposit. How much lower is this market going to go?

A colleague of mine moved to Westchester from NYC (where he and the wife were renting). They liked a property but it was $2.2 million, out of reach. Price was lowered by $400K when the seller had already closed and moved into a home in CT. Pretty big decline. They bid $50K less, and settled on $25K less.

lobo
about 8 hours ago
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"Just pick a place that you are willing to live in, pay the price that you think is right and then live in your "home"."

Wow, what simple advice, is it really as easy as 1,2,3? Advice like a fucking infomercial by Ron Popeil.

Well, some people (most of them on this site) act like buying a "home" is the most complicated thing in the world. It is clearly not a great market out there but people are supposed to buy homes becasue they want to live in them and build a "home"...not becasue they want to flip it for a profit in 2 years. New construction comes with plenty of risks ... the beginning of any offering plan tells you that (by law). A lot of people buy new construction assuming that it will immediately incease in in value and then they can flip it shortly after. I have a few friends and family members that bought in the early/mid 80's. The good news was that they bought a "home" and did not consider it an investment. Some sold their homes when they broke even, other held it for 20 years ... rented for a few ... and then sold the places for considerably more than they originally purchased them for.

Anyhow, there just seem to be too many people that are concerned about their short term gains/losses. And if that's the case, then you should not be buying in a new construction - or anywhere for that matter. If you can't see yourself owning a place for more than 10 years (if necessary), then rent!

p.s. - my advice may be simple but your comment makes you sound like the kind of person that would buy a home based on an informarcial by Ron Popeil.

just the opposite jackass

you seem to think you can walk up to a place and name a price and its yours ... 1,2,3

First of all, you started out being unnecessarily vulgar.

Second, I did not say that you can %u201Cname a price%u201D, learn how to read. I said %u201C%u2026pay the price that you think is right%u201D %u2013 in no way implying that you would get that price%u2026merely trying to state that you should not pay a price that you are not comfortable with. It doesn%u2019t take a genius to figure out that it is a) not an easy process to buy a home b) not an easy decision to buy a home. Just don%u2019t get in over you head and don%u2019t expect to flip it for a profit, now, or ever.

My only point: your home is your home, not an investment. Unless, of course, you are a landlord; in which case you don%u2019t need this advice because it is your profession and you should know what the hell you are doing anyway.

This post is about someone asking if people are walking away from their deposits. A bunch of people are saying that it makes total sense to walk away from your $100,000 deposit as if it were nothing. That is hard cash that people have paid, not paper value. Personally, it would take a pretty bad situation for me to walk away from a $100,000 check of my hard earned cash. And, if you have time to wait %u2013 which I am hoping you do if you made the decision to buy a home %u2013 then you may want to think twice before walking away from your deposit out of fear. Especially based solely on the doom and gloom that people tend to spread on this site.

Anyhow, just trying to give a different point of view before someone decides to walk away from their 10% cash deposit. Yes, you need to be aware that if prices drop significantly that you may owe the bank more than your apartment is worth in the SHORT-TERM. But it doesn%u2019t mean that you will not recoup that money at some point. It is easier to say %u201Ccut your losses%u201D in the stock market when you see that a company may go bankrupt (and it is not easy to do it there either) but it is different when you are buying property, if you have the time to wait, you will eventually get your money back %u2026

Anyhow, maybe we can play nice now%u2026

not sure why the formatting is all screwed up ... I'll try again.

First of all, you started out being unnecessarily vulgar.

Second, I did not say that you can “name a price”, learn how to read. I said “…pay the price that you think is right” – in no way implying that you would get that price…merely trying to state that you should not pay a price that you are not comfortable with. It doesn’t take a genius to figure out that it is a) not an easy process to buy a home b) not an easy decision to buy a home. Just don’t get in over you head and don’t expect to flip it for a profit, now, or ever.

My only point: your home is your home, not an investment. Unless, of course, you are a landlord; in which case you don’t need this advice because it is your profession and you should know what the hell you are doing anyway.

This post is about someone asking if people are walking away from their deposits. A bunch of people are saying that it makes total sense to walk away from your $100,000 deposit as if it were nothing. That is hard cash that people have paid, not paper value. Personally, it would take a pretty bad situation for me to walk away from a $100,000 check of my hard earned cash. And, if you have time to wait – which I am hoping you do if you made the decision to buy a home – then you may want to think twice before walking away from your deposit out of fear. Especially based solely on the doom and gloom that people tend to spread on this site.

Anyhow, just trying to give a different point of view before someone decides to walk away from their 10% cash deposit. Yes, you need to be aware that if prices drop significantly that you may owe the bank more than your apartment is worth in the SHORT-TERM. But it doesn’t mean that you will not recoup that money at some point. It is easier to say “cut your losses” in the stock market when you see that a company may go bankrupt (and it is not easy to do it there either) but it is different when you are buying property, if you have the time to wait, you will eventually get your money back …

Anyhow, maybe we can play nice now…

Hey George K or anybody: could you post a link to the 25% declines in ask at 20 Pine? I don't doubt for a minute, but Streeteasy isn't showing them.

Trompolico - My friend went to an open house and they gave her a price list that matched the StreetEasy listings. The rep then told her that the prices were all discounted 25% from those amounts. For example, she saw Unit 1206 - with a view of the NYSE which is listed at $1,005,000 on the list and StreetEasy - which is now about $750,000 or $703 sft. She had seen the apt I am in contract for at the District, which is about $1,000 sft, and said there is no comparison. This will clearly lower the bar and put pressure on all developments to make comparable price cuts, esp. when sales close and the comps are used for new mortgages. You should go down and take a look if you want to buy now as these look to be good values compared to current prices elsewhere in FiDi. I am waiting as I think 25% is just the start as deeper price cuts may be made by resellers and/ or foreclosures.

lobo,

I agree with you that a home is not just an investment and many of the posts here looking at rent vs buy on this site are overly simplistic.

However, I view the people who put a deposit down on new contruction a year ago as buying an option. Let's say a year ago you paid $100k for an option to buy $1m of IBM stock a year later. Now that stock is worth $500k, so why would you exercise the option? You could walk away and still buy the IBM stock if you wanted to own it, for a total of $600k not $1.1 million.

Same thing with deposits on new contruction. If you could buy a similar unit now for a lot less than your contract price, even counting the loss of the deposit, you should walk away. You can still buy a unit if you want to live there, but you might as well take advantage of the price decline and buy for less.

And what if it not new construction? How do you measure the value/ loss in order to decide to walk away or not?

It is usually not an issue with a resale since the time from signing to closing is only a few months and the market does not usually make such a big move.

I do not disagree with you modern; however, the decrease would have to be fairly significant.

If I bought unit A on the 4th floor in a building and then found out that unit A on the 5th floor was selling for 30% less than mine, I may consider backing out. But, liquidity is an issue for some poeple (most I would say), so backing away from 100k doesn't mean that you will have another 100k to make up for that and then another 100k to meet the 20% (300k total) that you will most likely need to get a mortgage.

hotproperty, if it is a resale, then as Maraman said, I would find it hard to believe that prices would have fallen so much from the time that you signed a contract to the time that you have to close.

Like I said, if you find out the the unit above yours is selling for 30% less then you may want to reconsider. Otherwise, I would think long and hard before walking away from 10%.

I agree with modern that a 10% deposit is more like an option (in new construction) but when people buy options it is becasue they can afford to lose X $'s and usually expect to lose it. A home is not usually the same, unliess you intended your deposit to buy you an option.

Anyhow, the good thing about these boards is that you get multiple points of view but I would suggest that you not get caught in the hype unless you are in an extreme situation - you may look back in a few years and wonder why you threw away 10%. On the other hand, prices may fall 60% (according to some people...) and it may never come back up - but I don't believe that for a second.

" I don't want to expose myself on the value of 2 apartments declining. So what to do? 50 - 70% down?"

Doesn't matter how much you put down to buy it, once you own it, 100% borrowed or 0% borrowed, you are exposed to 100% of loss.

"You *really* shouldn't bother trying to beat me on math."

Yes, I know... because you never took any. I won't confuse you with numbers.

> I'm using your numbers, as absurd as they are

Except you aren't.

> 10k loss on deposit now, which is typically 10% of the purchase price.
> That implies the purchase price is 100k (your numbers, not mine).

I love it... YOU made up the number, claimed it was a 10% deposit, and then tell me its my numbers.

Take the math class, trust me.

Lots of 5% or less deposits around these parts...

> You then say you may lose 50k or 100k. That's not a leverage issue. That's a nuclear bomb just hit
> NYC and literally destroyed 100% of the value of your property issue.

Learn what 100% means...

"Its music to my ears to see the bears unable to refute my points, and instead resort to (rather amusing) insults. "

You didn't have any points, only insults yourself..

nyc 10022, I meant that I can't believe that the market is going 50 -70% down like some hear are saying.

Sorry. Agreed, it might not be that much, but I'm pretty sure we're talking at least 20% (and the stats already show 10% through Q3, and I'm hearing 15-18% from Urban Digs) A 5% deposit or a 10% deposit will be smaller than that loss no matter how much you put down. Hell, their smaller than the losses already out there.

Assuming you don't have a cash issue, are you telling me you can't find something for 5% or 10% cheaper these days? There are 20-30-40% price cuts all over the place.

I'd hate to buy something today and have it drop in value next month. Where are you seeing 40% price cuts?

I finally decided to walk away from 10% deposit. The Madoff situation will excerbate the market downturn. People have become so much more pessimistic about NYC real estate in the past week.

Ruiz, that must have been a very difficult decision to make.

However, years down the line, you will pat yourself on the back when you look back and say "dang, that was the best move I could have made back then".

good job.

Damn, I can't find the link... but one of the market reports this week said deposit walk-aways are now up 40%. I'm not sure what the specific timeline or baseline is, but the note was it is clearly a more frequent occurence.

I will keep looking... but also note the closing walk around article noted on the board this week.

But, I also can't imagine how its not. With median down 20%, you have to figure some folks put down deposits at over-market prices... combine the "savings" with the fact that a lot more folks just can't afford to follow through (or at least get the morgage).... I can't see how this wouldn't be pretty routine at this point.

"I'd hate to buy something today and have it drop in value next month. Where are you seeing 40% price cuts?"

Check the price drops thread. A TON there...

Ruiz, was it a new condo or a resale? What else besides Madoff made you do it?

hotproperty, think very carefully before losing 10% deposit. Are you planning to hold this property long term? Can you rent out your current digs?

btw, ruiz... best of luck to you.

The coop board says no to renting my current place.

jerks. when do you have to close on your new place?

> hotproperty, think very carefully before losing 10% deposit.

versus losing 20% immediately (going by the medians)?

Yes, definitely don't take the decision lightly, but make sure you know the facts.

> Are you planning to hold this property long term?

Why does long term make the loss any more acceptable?

It might be less noticeable, but it is no less significant and avoidable.

nyc, I really don't think you understand the market. of course long term matters. u think the market will never come back?

> nyc, I really don't think you understand the market.

Hmmm... I called the decline while brokers like you denied prices would do anything but go up. You missed the boat that we're already down 20%. And you're saying that *I* don't understand the market?

Interesting.

Its the lack of knowledge that let brokers like you cause the bubble in the first place.

> u think the market will never come back?

To its peak? Not even close in real terms in any time frame that matters... Could we return to these levels in 10-15-20 years... probably. But, in real terms that would still be a decline.

Just going by the long term shiller analysis, we will likely never see these numbers in real terms again. We never had 'em before relative to income, not sure why one would expect them to when the long term trends are pretty clear.

Seems like you are making the mistake of using short term return to predict long term returns.

Thats the mistake that got us into this mess in the first place.

BTW, I had a broker idiot tell me I "didn't understand the market" when I explained about the global recession right before the shit hit the fan in September. The idiot actually said to me "but they say that every year".

And, every year, we seem to get a new crop of uneducated brokers who buy the brokerage lies hook, line and sinker.

You don't seem to be an exception.

nyc10022: Don't you find it pointless to argue with someone not capable of spelling the word 'you'?

but if you buy now, you are buying at 20% below peak.

hotperperty - It was new construction. I really like the apartment, but felt that we are really going to see problems in NYC with so many people losing jobs. I walked away for a number of reasons. 1. I'm in finance so my job stability is in question. 2. I would have to liquidate some of my stock holdings at rock bottom prices to pay for the additional deposit required. 3. I signed my contract 18 months ago so I pretty much bought at the peak of the market. Of course, my idiot broker keeps telling me that I can rent this 2 br apt for $8,000 and I shouldn't walk away. 4. NY job market was already challenging and Madoff really is going to kill any hope of speedy recovery. My banker friends who lost their jobs earlier this year still are unemployed. It was a lot of money for me, but in the end, I want to sleep better at night and not have to worry about the mortgage payments. I now have the financial flexibility to really search for the next opportunity if I need to rather than take the first job that comes around. I tried to negotiate with the sponsor, but they were not interested. Ultimately, I just thought that life is already too stressful without having this burden. Once I walk way, I can forget about it and move on with my life.

Ruiz, the main thing is to be confident in your decision, which you are. There is an old saying that your first loss is your best loss. I am sure that future opportunities will present themselves and you will be happy to be in the position to seize them. Best of luck.

> nyc10022: Don't you find it pointless to argue with someone not capable of spelling the word 'you'?

lol

"but if you buy now, you are buying at 20% below peak."

A bargain about to become a bigger bargain is no bargain at all...

Hotproperty, that's unintentionally funny! You're one of that new crop of realtors/owners who have just switched course and after denying for years that the market would ever come down, are now calling a bottom. It's the first inning, my friend.

Ruiz, why isMadoff really is going to kill any hope of speedy recovery? Was your business directly effected by him?

Not directly, but it will cause additional job losses in NYC. Have you even seen the list of investors/firms impacted by Madoff? As the NYT articled put it very nicely yesterday...Madoff is the nail in the coffin.

"Hotproperty, that's unintentionally funny! You're one of that new crop of realtors/owners who have just switched course and after denying for years that the market would ever come down, are now calling a bottom. It's the first inning, my friend."

Yes, it is ironic that the folks who couldn't see the crash coming are the ones who are now experts on when it will end....

"Ruiz, why isMadoff really is going to kill any hope of speedy recovery? Was your business directly effected by him?"

1) A lot of people lost a lot of money. If any were going to buy apartments, this could crimp that. if any owned apartments, this could crimp their ability to pay them

2) The majority of investors seemed to be in RE

3) This feeds off the others, but... confidence. This is a VERY high profile local loss at a time when the horrible RE numbers are just hitting. That things are intertwined in RE won't help. This will clearly have some effect on market psychology. We're in a market that is already bruised, and major headlines about crime on Wall Street related to RE are not going to help a city dependent on it, with lots of folks worries about their jobs.

hotproperty, I want you to know that I have no personal interest in your case. I am just trying to give you real advice unlike most of these bloggers who are literally unemployed and blogging all day long. 10022 is very angry and hates anyone who doesn't agree with him. I have nothing personal against him, he simply does not know what he is talking about. Its not an insult 10022. I probably know nothing of whatever industry you are in (if you are indeed employed). anyhow, if you are interested in an educated opinion, let me know. things are still selling. I just closed an $8.7M unit today which you will all find in public records shortly. I have a feeling I know a lot more about this subject than 10022 and some of the other crazies.

yes, alot of commercial real estate firms were effected by Madoff.

> am just trying to give you real advice

Excuse me?

As the person on this board with FINANCIAL INCENTIVE to get people to buy, individually and in the market sense, that is an INCREDIBLY disingenuous accusation. You have a clear agenda, and have given advice that counters the data out there.

And somehow you are the only one with "real" advice?

Amazing how some people believe their own bullshit.

> 10022 is very angry and hates anyone who doesn't agree with him.

I'm angry? You are kidding? That my predictions have come true, and my strategy of waiting things out proven extremely successful, why would I be angry? I feel for folks who got screwed (many by liars like you), but, personally, I am thrilled by the decisions I made. I'm not angry, just right.

I do have a severe distaste for brokers, but only because you guys screwed so many people. You didn't get me, so I'm not angry, but absolutely, you deserve all the crap coming your way. Except for Urban Digs... the only honest broker I've ever met.

> I have nothing personal against him, he simply does not know what he is talking about.

Yes, ignore the folks who called the market right and have since been proven. Instead, listen to the folks who denied the crash was coming, and have a financial incentive to keep the market going.

No, a broker would NEVER lie to you.

> if you are interested in an educated opinion, let me know. things are still selling.

The stats say 75% decline in sales (Jonathan Miller and multiple other sources). But, hey, why believe those, when you have a shill telling you something else?

Clearly the paid shill is the honest one, right?

> I have a feeling I know a lot more about this subject than 10022 and some of the other crazies.

All evidence to the contrary.

People who listened to shills like AgentRachel got burned. And they helped trash the economy.

These shills denied the crash would happen, now its officially in, and suddenly they are the experts on when the crash will end.

Sorry, brokers know diddly about RE. AgentRachel, I know a hell of a lot more than you do...

AgentRachel, how dare you?

Seriously...

How do you look at yourself in the mirror each morning?

"yes, alot of commercial real estate firms were effected by Madoff. "

Guess what happens when a commercial real estate firm needs to sell a bunch of apartments quick to meet cash constraints?

u sure sound angry

and by the way, you should be really happy people are still buying too. do u want NY to go to hell? what is wrong with u??

BTW, this "oh so honest" AgentRachel who says folks are buying from her left and right...

ask her why she's been trying to pick up clients on this board for weeks?

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/search?search=AgentRachel

Also check out some of her claims... she denies the decline only 2 weeks before it was proven. And numbers folks called her out on her shilling.... this person is not honest.

Amazing, it is always the liars who say you can trust them.

well, i don't think anyone wants ny to go to hell, but the idea of only certain rich people getting richer just seems so unjust. i know...world is not fair...

http://nymag.com/daily/intel/2008/11/erin_callan_buys_shiny_new_con.html

"and by the way, you should be really happy people are still buying too."

1) but they're not. 75% decline is the biggest falloff in quite some time.
2) lets assume the biggest decline ever didn't happen... why should folks be happy about people buying a declining asset?

> do u want NY to go to hell?

New York won't go to hell. Because we're getting rid of scum like you....

But, a more properly priced NYC, nothing wrong with that. One where people who don't work on Wall Street can afford to live here without selling a kidney. I think its great that things are getting more affordable.

This was a bubble, bubble pops are necessary, even if temporarily painful.

> what is wrong with u?? "

let me get this straight, the person who has been lying to others and screwing them financial for her own personal gain.... asking others what is wrong with them?

I honestly don't know how you live with yourself.

um, I never said people were buying from me left and right. I obviously have clients as I just completed an $8.7M deal today. u really don't know what you are talking about.

furthermore, u need anger management classes

"well, i don't think anyone wants ny to go to hell, but the idea of only certain rich people getting richer just seems so unjust. i know...world is not fair..."

I'm fine with folks earning lots of money. I'm not fine with folks stealing it from others. Erin Callahan did this with an inflated stock and bonuses based on false profits. Lying brokers like AgentRachel did it with inflating housing values based on lies they told.

I have no problem seeing these people get what they deserve.

Although, I'm guessing AgentRachel is 19 and didn't finish college, and saw RE as the path to riches. She mistakes being a salesperson for actually having knowledge of a market.

Its like the guy who sells you your newspaper telling you he knows about the inner workings of the media...

Stop the 'u' madness!

AgentRachel, you do your professional reputation no good by typing like a 12 year old on her Sidekick. Spell it with me: Y-O-U.

nyc, this is the last response you will hear from me because you clearly can't have a rational conversation. good luck with your anger problem. i'm sorry you can't afford nyc. there are other places to live.

Let me make clear the horrible dishonesty of this unintelligent broker shill. I want to make sure it is clear that this person is lying to folks on the board to try to generate revenues for herself...

http://www.streeteasy.com/nyc/talk/discussion/4857-raise-your-hand-if-you-are-a-foreigner-or-a-cash-rich-sideline-sitter-waiting-for-the-right-moment-to-buy?page=2+

Amity95
13 days ago
AgentRachel, STOP TRYING TO PICK UP CLIENTS ON THIS THREAD NOW. Or if you can't help yourself, at least start a new thread called "AgentRachel desperately looking for buyers," so those of who aren't interested don't have to experience the visceral anger that your posts elicit.

AgentRachel
13 days ago
why do you care? why is it desperate? its a free forum full of potential buyers. i would call that smart.

This person is blatantly lying to try and drum up business for herself. If she had all this imaginary business, she wouldn't be trolling looking for customers.

If someone DID need a broker, I wouldn't pick someone this stupid...

"nyc, this is the last response you will hear from me because you clearly can't have a rational conversation."

I'm not sure why you think anyone could have a "rational conversation" with someone who has demonstrated clearly that they are LYING.

> good luck with your anger problem. i'm sorry you can't afford nyc. there are other places to live

Yes, my anger problem... look who is lashing out.

I'm glad this broker's business has tanked... she clearly deserves it.

ok so I get it, Agent Rachel is an AGENT, in REAL ESTATE. ok, pretty clear. She has an interest in transactions taking place and she can make money.

mdasch and kas242 wear ascots and cumberbunds at home speaking in proper King's english.

Nyc10022, well he's just a charitable chap. He just wants to spread his wisdom widely, not even so that people can credit him for his intellingence, because after all, he's anonymous, even if he's previously used the name EddieWilson. By the way, nyc10022 told you when the top was and told you when the bottom was. Unfortunately his buddy pal stevejhx didn't listen to the top call (in the stock market stevieboy) and lost 95% of his wealth by October.

"AgentRachel, you do your professional reputation no good by typing like a 12 year old on her Sidekick. Spell it with me: Y-O-U."

ROTFL.

As I said, its a 19 year old who never attended college, and got told RE would be the path to riches. Mistakes getting the company shill newsletter for knowing something about RE.

We all know how that turned out...

Time to go to beauty school.

lol

AgentRachel, I personally think NY went to hell when the real estate prices doubled, tripled, in such a short period of time. Absolutely nothing wrong with assets appreciating, but bubbles can be toxic. It's not the way down that is killing us, it's the fact that the way down is necessary because of the gross financial missteps of those giants with very big footprints.

Well put, aboutready!

hotproperty, also take into account the lack of liquidity in the mkt in case you need to pack and leave. don't take for granted you will see much movement during the next couple of years, so if prices do collapse, you might not be able to avoid the loss (i'd cut my losses soon, but that's me).

there are threads on how to try to walk away from a contract while getting your deposit back. i'd try something like that if i were you. i'd also change my nickname, no property is hot right now.

ruiz, you are right not to believe what your broker tells you about ability to rent out the unit. We looked at a lot of condo units for rent in the last month. Huge price cuts left and right (some things going from $8K ask to under $6K ask), brokers begging for offers, telling us everything is negotiable, etc. Even things very well priced (2-bedrooms with large dining rooms and balconies in decent areas for well under $5K) aren't moving. I've mentioned our experience on other threads, sorry if repetitive.

"AgentRachel, I personally think NY went to hell when the real estate prices doubled, tripled, in such a short period of time. Absolutely nothing wrong with assets appreciating, but bubbles can be toxic. It's not the way down that is killing us, it's the fact that the way down is necessary because of the gross financial missteps of those giants with very big footprints. "

Well said...

if any one is walking away from a 20% deposit let me know. I will buy the unit and give you part of your 1/4 of your 20% back in cash.